[
Date Prev][
Date Next][
Thread Prev][
Thread Next][
Date Index][
Thread Index]
[
List Home]
Re: [rt-pmc] RT projects and standards
|
rt-pmc:
I see from the minutes of this morning's call:
http://wiki.eclipse.org/RT/meetings/PMC_Minutes_101201 that perhaps more
input on the issue of standards and runtime projects is needed from
me. So here's my further contribution:
1) Difficulty of consuming standards from RT projects. Here are what I
perceive as some consumer problems with RT wrt standards...I'm sure
other RT project leads have others.
a) How do I find out what OSGi standards are implemented by RT projects?
b) How do I get implementations from RT projects of standards x, y, z
(or parts of standard)
c) Why does project x *not* implement relevant standard y
d) Is standard x implemented by multiple RT projects? If so, why?
e) What versions of which standards (e.g. OSGi 4.2, 4.3, etc) are
implemented by which project?
f) What is the status of the standards impls on RT projects that are
engaged in implementing standards?
2) TCK access for projects. For EF projects to fully implement various
standards...and verify for their consumers that those standards are
complied with...it's necessary for projects to have access to the TCK
associated with the standard (if one is available). In too many cases,
this is very difficult.
3) RT projects working together on relevant standards. I assert that
'encouragement' of rt projects to work collaboratively on standards
hasn't, doesn't, and perhaps will never work. Case in point is this
charming bug: https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=274839.
Hopefully this will help clarify things. There's probably more, but
maybe other project leads that implement and/or use relevant standards
will chime in also.
Scott
On 11/30/2010 12:46 PM, Scott Lewis wrote:
On 11/30/2010 11:21 AM, Jeff McAffer wrote:
<stuff deleted>
For RT PMC...particular to RT.
What, if anything, do you think would be unique to standards in the
RT world vs. say in the modeling world?
I happen to think that RT standards (which are generally relatively
'low-level') are generally more important for consistent/interoperable
sw platforms than most modeling standards (which are generally higher
level)...but that's clearly just my opinion (so it's not meant to
start a email battle).
All I'm suggesting with comment above is that the Runtime projects
(and RT PMC) should be focused on obviously Runtime standards (e.g.
OSGi core, persistence, remote services, web, etc).
Can you suggest some things that would be captured in these policies?
1) Cross-project collaboration (impls) and reuse (consumption)
Current state is that projects are encouraged but not required to do
these things. Participation in the simultaneous release requires
them to use the same impls of third party libs (standard or not).
What should be different in the RT policy?
I would say something should be required. I don't know exactly what.
'Encouragement' is basically useless IMHO...with the way that EF
projects traditionally interact with each other.
2) Cross-project standards impl and consumption agreements that make
it easier for consumers (of all RT projects)...e.g. to know
how/where to get standards impls (via RT projects)
Is this a policy topic or a "we should have a shared website that
lists standards implementations" topic? Can you clarify your intent
here?
I don't know how it should be operationalized...but it's pretty clear
to me based upon what I've heard that many consumers have little idea
of what RT projects and (OSGi) standards are related, what standards
various RT projects implement, what their plans are WRT standards, how
are these standards and impls relate to each other (e.g.
dependencies), etc.
3) For RT projects that impl (at least OSGi) standards: some means
to get TCK's etc...to verify compliance and make that compliance
known to consuming community.
Yes, this a longstanding topic though not really "policy" per se.
The Foundation folks have been talking legal with the OSGi folks and
AFAIK have yet to come to a resolution.
Yeah, I'm quite aware of this. An actual policy might help for when
it comes up again tomorrow (for us or someone else). Whether
associated with Foundation, RT-PMC, Planning council, architecture
council...I personally don't care. As a project that's trying to
implement a standard (remote services and rsa) in response to
community request it seems to me like a no-brainer that we should be
able to do so without going outside of the EF. But currently that's
not the case.
I don't attend that call...I believe Markus K does, however. Feel
free to bring up the above suggestions.
We could bring this up but you seem to have something in mind and we
would just be speculating as to what that is.
What I have in mind is the PMC and/or EF actually meeting a clear
consumer and project needs wrt standards (e.g. for some coherence in
how standards are dealt with in RT projects, some way for consumers to
understand how the RT projects and standards are related to each other
if at all, etc).
I understand that the regular RT PMC call time is early for west
coast. Perhaps you could draft an initial policy proposal that
captures your ideas and put it on this list or in a bug. Then we can
try an email discussion or schedule an explicit call at a time that
works better for you. Make sense?
No...as I don't have the resources to draft policy proposals. I was
under the impression that the PMC, EF, councils can/could do such things.
Scott
_______________________________________________
rt-pmc mailing list
rt-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/rt-pmc