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Re: [wtp-incubator-dev] More on XSL Graduation ...
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While I agree, I also view the WTP Incubator as it's own project, and
the XSL Tools as a sub project within that project. I see the XML
Security project as a sub project, JAXWS, VEX, and XQuery all fall into
these catagories as well. It's a place to house projects that are
incubating, that may eventually graduate to another WTP project.
In some ways, this is why I would eventually like to see a true XML
Development Tools project either in WTP or housed in the Technology
project. As right now, for some of these, Source Editing isn't
necessarily the place for them. The reason is that they cover much more
than source editing. XSL Tools in particular covers XSLT Editing, but
also Launching and Debugging as well.
So I see the need for these holding areas for the incubating project.
With regards to VEX and XQuery. Both will get more attention once XSL
Tools graduates. At least from my end all of my energy is focused on XSL
Tools, and will be able to split some of that attention a bit once we
graduate.
With out the incubator, you are correct, it really is overly complicated
to get a project going. So much so that it discourages people that
aren't strategic members from bringing projects that could be housed at
eclipse over.
Dave
Konstantin Komissarchik wrote:
> I don't know what Mike and Bjorn said, of course, but not sure WTP
Incubator is what they intended.
Well, the comments were directed at the EMF incubator as they were the
first to my knowledge to setup one of these persistent incubators, but
since Platform Incubator and WTP Incubator have both copied that
pattern, the comments apply here as well. The issue is that life-cycle
state transitions (like releases and graduation) can only be done at
the project level (rather than the component level). In addition to
that, projects aren't supposed to remain in incubation indefinitely.
They are supposed to get to the graduated state or shutdown phase.
Clearly persistent incubators will never leave the incubation stage.
From process standpoing, it doesn't really matter that parts of the
project are actively moving through all the stages since technically
they can't move independently.
The concept of a persistent incubator came about as a back-door (not
technically approved by the development process, but EMO is not
exactly shutting these down either) solution for the problem of how
difficult it actually is to start a project at Eclipse. Between the
process and the infrasture needs, the function of the persistent
incubators is to ammortize the costs as to lower the overhead bar and
attract people who would not normally be interested. If there was an
effective and low overhead push-button solution for starting projects
then there would not be a need for persistent incubators. Every new
incubation feature would get its own project which would release,
graduate or die by itself (under supervision of a top-level project PMC).
That's the background. It sounds like you have figured out a way to
handle this "graduation" with EMO, which is ultimately what matters.
Results over process.
- Konstantin
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* wtp-incubator-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:wtp-incubator-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *David M
Williams
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 18, 2009 3:34 PM
*To:* WTP Incubator Dev list
*Subject:* RE: [wtp-incubator-dev] More on XSL Graduation ...
Thanks for the suggestion, and I suspect this would technically handle
the IP requirements.
But, ideally, a graduation review is a bit more. For example, they
should document
that they have adopters, end-users, are responsive to bugs, mailing
lists, meet milestones, etc.
I don't know what Mike and Bjorn said, of course, but not sure WTP
Incubator is what they intended.
Especially, if you contrast that with another incubating project in
WTP, that has been incubating too long
and for which the PMC and Project Lead are actively discussing next
steps.
And ... we have "killed" components in WTP Incubator that were not
making progress ... and any
WTP Incubator leader/committer should bring issues to my attention (as
WTP Incubator lead) so they can
be attended to.
Thanks again.
Inactive hide details for "Konstantin Komissarchik" ---02/18/2009
05:08:02 PM---So out of my own curiosity, how can part of a
p"Konstantin Komissarchik" ---02/18/2009 05:08:02 PM---So out of my
own curiosity, how can part of a project graduate or put another way,
why is the gradua
From:
"Konstantin Komissarchik" <konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx>
To:
"'WTP Incubator Dev list'" <wtp-incubator-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:
02/18/2009 05:08 PM
Subject:
RE: [wtp-incubator-dev] More on XSL Graduation ...
Sent by:
wtp-incubator-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
------------------------------------------------------------------------
So out of my own curiosity, how can part of a project graduate or put
another way, why is the graduation review even necessary in this case?
Would it be more straightforward to take the plugins and features in
questions, make a giant patch out of them and create a contribution
bug on the source editing project (together with the corresponding
CQ). Once the CQ is approved and the patch committed, the current XSL
tools committers can be voted in using the regular process. Maybe
that’s just subverting the process, but what I hear from Bjorn and
Mike, persistent incubators are themselves considered as subverting
the process.
In any case… Thought I’d throw this out in case this would make
paperwork easier…
- Konstantin
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* wtp-incubator-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:wtp-incubator-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Nitin
Dahyabhai*
Sent:* Wednesday, February 18, 2009 1:51 PM*
To:* WTP Incubator Dev list*
Subject:* Re: [wtp-incubator-dev] More on XSL Graduation ...
So how's this work with committer rights? Do the XSL committers
"graduate" into being Source Editing committers? Or do we have to
nominate and vote for each individually?
Regards,
---
Nitin Dahyabhai
Eclipse WTP Source Editing
IBM Rational
*David M Williams/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS*
Sent by: wtp-incubator-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
02/18/2009 01:49 AM
Please respond to
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Subject
[wtp-incubator-dev] More on XSL Graduation ...
Just to bring everyone up the the same level of knowledge as myself
(little as that is :) ...
I have learned that the first step in "graduating" the XSL components
into the Source Editing project is to make sure the IP Log is in
order, and everything "all clear" from an IP point of view, and it's
"approved" by the Eclipse Foundation's IP Staff. And, only after that
is done, is the actual graduation scheduled and other materials provided.
Normally, this is semi-automatic, using the automatic IP Log, but in
our case, that log includes everything in WTP Incubator, not just XSL.
So ... we'll have to do a "manual" one.
I think this won't be too hard, since we can, to some degree, use the
automatic IP Log and just take out stuff that doesn't apply to XSL. I
think we should do this as a document on our website (not wiki) and in
Open Document Format, since at some point we need to "freeze it" (e.g.
in PDF format) to provide to the Eclipse Foundation for long term
records. I'll be able to start work on this next week (if no one else
volunteers), but if anyone wants to take a look at our starting point,
here's the URL to the automatic IP Log: _
__http://www.eclipse.org/projects/ip_log.php?projectid=webtools.incubator_
Thanks,
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