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Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM 3.7? 
On 26 Nov 2014, at 8:40, Stieber, Uwe wrote:
I looked at the Target Explorer when considering a Targets View for the LaunchBar and found it to be too flexible and too hard to extend.
Well, you cannot request being able to contribute into the tree hierarchy at every level from everywhere on the one hand and complain about the flexibility it gives you on the other hand! I bed you never considered writing up your own projects view because the Eclipse Project Explorer is too flexible. The API and the way to extend the Project Explorer and the System Management view is exactly the same.
Nevermind. I'm just hoping that you do make the "Target View" pluggable for vendors bundling CDT but having different needs once it comes to target management ... hope dies last.
Let's return to where we started from, which is bugzilla #440782. The original trigger of this discussion is that there are a) too much terminal views in Eclipse and b) 2 out of the 3 available views are outdated and no longer maintained. These points are of technical nature and are planned to be resolved by the TM 3.7 release.
Funny - the last thing we (Nick works on JBoss Tools) wanted by opening the bug was to it resulting in RSE to be removed :/
After the TM 3.7 release, the Terminal widget will likely be moved to another project home as the remaining Terminal widget committers are from the TCF project. If or if not there will be further releases of the RSE parts from the master or maintenance branches, that's up to Greg and David McKnight to decide. David already expressed his interest in keeping the project around, even if he will be the only active committer left on RSE if the Terminal widget moved out.
That sounds great - David, are there things we can help to make this happen ? 

/max
Everything else is politics and I'm not a politician ... so please let's focus on #440782 here. 

Best regards, Uwe

[1] https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=440782



-----Original Message-----
From: tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Doug Schaefer
Sent: Dienstag, 25. November 2014 20:13
To: TM project developer discussions; Michael Scharf
Subject: Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM 3.7?
OK, here we go. I looked at the Target Explorer when considering a Targets View for the LaunchBar and found it to be too flexible and too hard to extend. I didn’t see what it bought me over the standard jface Content/Label providers. As such, I have created my own Targets View for the launch bar and will be adding things like file and process browsers to it. This will be another alternative to replace RSE with the advantage of being tied nicely to the launch 
bar for Remote launches.
You can see this work in the CDT launch bar plug-ins and the Arduino IDE I am 
building out at github.com/dschaefer/wascana. More when I make more
progress there.
Note that this is all towards my work on supporting remote launches in the CDT using the org.eclipse.remote plug-ins and the jsch stuff in particular. This is 
something CDT should have had a long time ago. And with the LaunchBar
making it easy to add remote targets and then co-ordinating launch
configurations to launch for them, it’s time. I am working to get this done by 
the 8.6 CDT release in February.

Doug.
On 2014-11-25, 4:22 AM, "Stieber, Uwe" <Uwe.Stieber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: 


Hi,


After having written a fair bit of code that extends RSE I do
certainly agree with others that it is not an ideal model, and so I am also interested in what a migration path looks like and would be 
interested in contributing work there.
Like Uwe said in another follow on, maybe that looks like adding the SSH/SFTP to Target Explorer or something. In practice our usage has 
tended to mash-up  different underlying technologies on one
connection. In effect we are using SSH/SFTP for file system access and the terminal as well as the ability to spawn remote processes and redirect stdio. Then we additionally use unrelated web services on 
the same target to provide other objects in the tree (e.g.
power on
a VM, etc.).  So all that to say, a more flexible model in the tree
would be
great. I know very little about it, but it does appear that the new 
org.eclipse.remote API provides much of what we need minus a
terminal, but I am not sure how that fits into an "explorer" view of 
one flavor or another.
The "Target Explorer" had been designed with most possible flexibility and extentability in mind. In fact, the "System Management" view, which is Target Explorer equivalent to the "Remote Systems" view, is simply 
an instantiation of the Eclipse Common Navigator framework. You have
the total flexibility and contribution possibilities of a Common Navigator. If you have ever done a contribution into the Eclipse Project Explorer, 
you can do a contribution into the "System Management" view too. You
basically have the full control of all the views content right from the 
root nodes.
Right now, we do have a core Target Explorer + very complete TCF based extensions for remote filesystem browsing and editing, remote process launch and monitoring and debugging. The TCF project also hosts the new "Terminals" view bringing a lot of always asked for enhancements, like 
the support for local terminals on both Unix and Windows. This new
"Terminals" view is the only maintained one and should be included in all packages and offerings used to include the outdated "Terminal" or 
"RSE Terminals" views. And the effort to get there is basically what
triggered the thread here.

What we would like to see is a core Target Explorer +
org.eclipse.remote based extensions for SSH/SFTP remote filesystem
browsing and editing as well as remote process launching an monitoring. That's definitly the most desired contribution we would be very exited to see 
happening.


Best regards, Uwe :)






-----Original Message-----
From: tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] 
On Behalf Of Aaron Spear
Sent: Montag, 24. November 2014 18:03
To: TM project developer discussions; Michael Scharf
Subject: Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM 3.7?

Hi again Doug et all,

Yes, certainly many are enjoying the fruit of the TM committers
vision and  labor, and we owe you all a very big debt of gratitude.
Thanks for your seemingly endless enthusiasm, energy and commitment 
to making great  software.  I do of course agree that it is not
reasonable for my company or  anyone else to expect you all to
continue to maintain RSE out of the goodness of your heart (however 
good it may be, there is only so much a human can do!)
Assuming that we or others with a vested interest are willing to step up and help, what would that look like? It would appear that anyone that is going to help is not likely to be a current committer on the project since as you said there is no one left to do this. I am not sure how that would work to have myself or someone else from VMware 
or Redhat etc. to jump in for  maintenance for the next release
perhaps?

After having written a fair bit of code that extends RSE I do
certainly agree with others that it is not an ideal model, and so I am also interested in what a migration path looks like and would be 
interested in contributing work there.
Like Uwe said in another follow on, maybe that looks like adding the SSH/SFTP to Target Explorer or something. In practice our usage has 
tended to mash-up  different underlying technologies on one
connection. In effect we are using SSH/SFTP for file system access and the terminal as well as the ability to spawn remote processes and redirect stdio. Then we additionally use unrelated web services on 
the same target to provide other objects in the tree (e.g.
power on
a VM, etc.).  So all that to say, a more flexible model in the tree
would be
great. I know very little about it, but it does appear that the new 
org.eclipse.remote API provides much of what we need minus a
terminal, but I am not sure how that fits into an "explorer" view of 
one flavor or another.

thanks again,
Aaron

-----Original Message-----
From: tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] 
On Behalf Of Doug Schaefer
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 8:22 PM
To: TM project developer discussions; Michael Scharf
Subject: Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM 3.7?

Hi Aaron, good to hear from you again. I’m glad that Vmware, and
othercompanies, are enjoying the fruits of the hard work that the RSE team hasput in over the years. But as I’m sure you’re aware, these haven’t beencharitable donations, and those who have contributed are 
now gone.
Theresno one left to do this for you. If you and others want it
alive, you needto step up and invest in it.Doug.On 2014-11-21, 7:30 
PM, "Aaron Spear"
<aspear@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:>Hi TM friends,>>I am a little unclear on
what is being proposed here, but it sure looks>like you are talking 
about a possible  end of life for RSE as we know it?>>I think you
would probably be surprised just  how many companies and>others are
using RSE downstream.  VMware for  instance is using it for>file
system, terminals, and other custom services for a  number
of>developer SDK's targeting our main products (including ESX
hypervisor,>vCenter, vCenter Orchestrator and others).  We actually
have a
subsystem>and such to support connecting to Windows boxes using CIFS 
that
we were>thinking about contributing.  RSE certainly has its warts,
but it
still>has a place in our product lines and VMware would like to keep 
still>it
around.>
I suspect there are other companies in this camp too.  Heck I find
it>generally
useful to have around while I am doing web development so that>I can 
easily  edit remote configuration files in my local
eclipse>seamlessly.>>Are you  looking for new blood to jump in and
maintain it?>>best regards,>Aaron Spear,
VMware>>>-----Original Message----->From: tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On>Behalf Of Doug Schaefer>Sent: 
Thursday, November 13, 2014 9:13 AM>To: Michael Scharf; TM project
developer discussions>Subject: Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM
3.7?>>We quickly discussed this on the architecture council call and 
it
appears>there are
commits happening, but it¹s not being picked up by the portal>at the 
moment.
So it¹s not quite dead yet :). But certainly at issue.>>Doug.>>On
2014-11-13,
11:10 AM, "Michael Scharf" <eclipse@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:>>>+1 let it die 
unless  someone steps up...>>>>Michael>>>>On 2014-11-13 15:52, Greg
Watson wrote:>>> I¹m fine with this if we have everyone¹s agreement. 
Committers on
the>>>project are:>>>>>> € Anna Dushistova>>> € David McKnight>>> € 
the>>>Greg
Watson>>> € Kevin Doyle>>> € Martin Oberhuber>>> € Michael Scharf>>> 
Watson>>> €
Uwe Stieber>>>>>> Assuming Martin and Uwe have already agreed, I¹d
like to  have a +1>>>from Anna, David, Kevin, and Michael before
proceeding. I don¹t
think>>>we can proceed unless we have at least a majority of
think>>>committers
voting>>>+1.>>>>>> If we go ahead with archiving TM, I suggest we use 
Luna
SR2 for the>>>final release and withdraw from Mars.>>>>>> Here¹s a
summary:>>>>>> 1. Announce TM change proposal to cross-project a.
Final release of>>> TM 3.7 with Luna SR2 b. TM to withdraw from Mars 2. 
Agreement from>>> TCF project to host Terminal 3. Approval from PMC
for
restructuring>>> review 4. Restructuring review to move Terminal to
restructuring>>> TCF
5.
Approval>>> from PMC for termination review 6. Termination review 7. 
Approval>>> TM
is>>> archived>>>>>> Is this agreed? Anybody not in agreement?>>>>>> 
Thanks,>>> Greg>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 13, 2014, at 6:13 AM, Oberhuber,


Martin>>><Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>><mailto:Martin.Oberhuber@

windriver.com>>>>>wrote:>>>>>>> Ok.>>>> If the plan of archiving TM
solidifies, we¹ll need to inform>>>>cross-project about that.>>>> Greg are you going to do that ?>>>> I could imagine that there will be a 
couple downstream  projects who>>>>won¹t be happy about TM being
archived, so better announce early.>>>> Thanks,>>>> Martin>>>> -->>>> 
*Martin Oberhuber*, SMTS /  Product Owner ­ Development
Tools,*Wind>>>>River*>>>> direct
+43.662.457915.85  fax +43.662.457915.6>>>>*From:*tm-dev-
bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>>[mailto:tm-
dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]*On Behalf Of*Stieber,
Uwe>>>>*Sent:*Thursday,  November 13, 2014 9:25 AM  *To:*TM project
developer>>>>discussions>>>>
*Subject:*Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM 3.7?>>>> Hi Martin,>>>>
Sounds like a plan to me.>>>> Best regards, UweJ>>>> *From:*tm-dev- 
bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>><mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>[mailto:tm-
dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>]*O>>>>n Behalf Of*Oberhuber, Martin>>>>
*Sent:*Donnerstag, 13. November 2014 08:59  *To:*TM
project>>>>developer
discussions>>>> *Subject:*Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM 3.7?>>>>
discussions>>>> So,
following sounds like a plan:>>>> 1.Terminal is moved from TM to TCF (that¹s where the active>>>>committers>>>>are)>>>> 2.We need one more 
release of  TM (Luna SR2 or Mars) such that we can>>>>clean up the
dependencies on the Terminal 3.After that, TM can be>>>>archived as a project.>>>> Do the committers agree ?>>>> Thanks,>>>> Martin>>>> 
-->>>> *Martin Oberhuber*,  SMTS / Product Owner ­ Development
Tools,*Wind>>>>River*>>>> direct
+43.662.457915.85  fax +43.662.457915.6>>>>*From:*tm-dev-
bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>><mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>[mailto:tm-
dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>]*O>>>>n Behalf Of*Stieber, Uwe>>>>
*Sent:*Thursday, November 13, 2014 8:03 AM  *To:*TM
project>>>>developer
discussions>>>> *Subject:*Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM 3.7?>>>>
discussions>>>> Hi
Greg,>>>> Well, I can speak only for Terminal and the Terminal is
definitely>>>>under active development. There might be just 2 active 
committers>>>>left, myself and Martin Oberhuber from time to time,
committers>>>>but
we
still do>>>>changes and we still need releases.>>>> I would be OK to move out the Terminal from the TM project but the>>>>proposed common project where things like the Terminal could live>>>>does not exist 
yet. I¹m also fine with  moving the Terminal widget to>>>>the TCF
project container, but that¹s something Martin Oberhuber>>>>needs to decide.>>>> For the Terminal, the main complains are not necessarily bugs at>>>>this point of time, the main complains are about the fact 
that you do>>>>have multiple Terminal views in  Eclipse once RSE is
installed. 2>>>>views are at least deprecated and only  the
³Terminals² view provided>>>>from the TCF project is maintained and 
where  new features requested>>>>by the users are added. We have to
get
the>>>>2
other Terminal views out of Eclipse to stop the user confusion.
The>>>>plan for
doing this is outlined below, but this work does have some>>>>effect on EPP packages. I can do everything outlined below, but I>>>>don¹t 
know how to get  the EPP packages updated to include the
correct>>>>features.>>>> The cleanup of the multiple Terminal views 
should happen for the>>>>Mars release.>>>>  Regarding the committer
meetings, at least for me time is limited>>>>and  discussing things
here instead of a shared conference call is>>>>easier to manage.>>>> 
Thanks, Best regards, UweJ>>>> *From:*tm-dev-
bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>><mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>[mailto:tm-
dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>]*O>>>>n Behalf Of*Greg Watson>>>>
*Sent:*Mittwoch, 12. November 2014 23:01  *To:*TM project
developer>>>>discussions>>>> *Subject:*Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is 
developer>>>>discussions>>>> TM
3.7?>>>> Hi Uwe,>>>> I¹m not sure of the plans at this point. I¹ve 
asked this list
about>>>>the 3.6 version a couple of times but received no reply.
about>>>>I¹ve
also>>>>invited everyone to the PTP developers conference call to
discuss>>>>plans, but no one from TM ever  attended. At this point,
discuss>>>>I¹m
assuming>>>>that the current release is the final release for TM.>>>> 
I¹m not a
developer on the project, so I don¹t know what anyone¹s>>>>plans are unless they let me know. Also, developer¹s will need to>>>>step up and update the project plan, documentation, and anything else>>>>that needs to be done. I can fix the outline of the plan, but>>>>someone 
else will need to fill in the details.
Finally, we need>>>>people to test the builds before they are
released, or we  can¹t say>>>>we¹re meeting Eclipse quality. This
didn¹t seem to be happening
for>>>>the SR1 release.>>>> Regards,>>>> Greg>>>> On Oct 30, 2014, at 
5:43
AM, Stieber, Uwe
<Uwe.Stieber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>><mailto:Uwe.Stieber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:>>>>>>>> Hi Greg,>>>> Can you confirm that I¹m right in
assuming that the master branch is>>>>leading to the TM 3.7 release? 
When will it be  released? I¹ve checked>>>>the TM project pages

undereclipse.org/tm>>>><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=htt
p-
3A__eclipse.org_tm&d=A>>>>AIF-g&c=Sqcl0Ez6M0X8aeM67LKIiDJAXVeAw-
YihVMNtXt-


uEs&r=IoX6lQ05T8ggojuUJ>>>>t27Ff7wSZqFOe_BW7zihIF6LNA&m=g5KNm0_rR

Dpsx8IAZTePBHXZbMdB1kZoo_V--
5hcjJ>>>>g&s=J15p7KqGXLIYotI2Ci3Ci_PI83Q9u9gs6TneSPJjhDk&e= >, but
5hcjJ>>>>this
pages>>>>are not up to date.>>>> If master is leading to the 3.7
release, I
would like to change at>>>>least the TM Terminal feature version
numbers accordingly. Also I>>>>want to tackle a few Terminal related 
releasing issues  we keep>>>>pushing ahead of us for a long time
now.>>>> Not sure if you need to announce them in some project lead meeting.>>>> 1.Deprecation of unused or no longer supported features a.Take out>>>>the o.e.tm.terminal.view and the o.e.tm.terminal.local 
from the build>>>>and repositories  b.Move the  source of this
features to>>>>terminal/deprecated folder to keep the source around 
for reference>>>>c.Remove the o.e.tm.terminal.core.sdk feature as
without the>>>>terminal.view feature, the usual SDK feature is the
same as
the>>>>core.sdk feature  2.Work on replacement for
org.eclipse.rse.terminal>>>>feature  a.Remove this feature from the
org.eclipse.rse feature>>>>b.Create an replacement providing the same 
entry  points from the RSE>>>>System Explorer as the
org.eclipse.rse.terminal plug-in  does but use>>>>the newer and
maintained TCF Terminals view. The new RSE
terminal>>>>feature will be provided by the TCF project like the TCF 
based
file>>>>system and process RSE contributions.>>>> All effort is
file>>>>related
to
address the many complains about having up>>>>to>>>>3 different
terminals views available in Eclipse. Final goal is to>>>>bundle all terminal related effort, bugfixing and feature>>>>development, into 
the superior TCF  Terminals  view.>>>> Best regards, UweJ>>>>
_______________________________________________>>>> tm-dev

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http://about.me/maxandersen

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