Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM 3.7?

[Aaron Spear <aspear@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi again Doug et all,

Yes, certainly many are enjoying the fruit of the TM committers vision and labor, and we owe you all a very big debt of gratitude.  Thanks for your seemingly endless enthusiasm, energy and commitment to making great software.  I do of course agree that it is not reasonable for my company or anyone else to expect you all to continue to maintain RSE out of the goodness of your heart (however good it may be, there is only so much a human can do!)

Assuming that we or others with a vested interest are willing to step up and help, what would that look like?  It would appear that anyone that is going to help is not likely to be a current committer on the project since as you said there is no one left to do this.  I am not sure how that would work to have myself or someone else from VMware or Redhat etc. to jump in for maintenance for the next release perhaps?  

After having written a fair bit of code that extends RSE I do certainly agree with others that it is not an ideal model, and so I am also interested in what a migration path looks like and would be interested in contributing work there.  Like Uwe said in another follow on, maybe that looks like adding the SSH/SFTP to Target Explorer or something.  In practice our usage has tended to mash-up different underlying technologies on one connection.  In effect we are using SSH/SFTP for file system access and the terminal as well as the ability to spawn remote processes and redirect stdio.  Then we additionally use unrelated web services on the same target to provide other objects in the tree (e.g. power on a VM, etc.).  So all that to say, a more flexible model in the tree would be great.   I know very little about it, but it does appear that the new org.eclipse.remote API provides much of what we need minus a terminal, but I am not sure how that fits into an "explorer" view of one flavor or another. 

thanks again,
Aaron

-----Original Message-----
From: tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Doug Schaefer
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 8:22 PM
To: TM project developer discussions; Michael Scharf
Subject: Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM 3.7?

Hi Aaron, good to hear from you again. I’m glad that Vmware, and othercompanies, are enjoying the fruits of the hard work that the RSE team hasput in over the years. But as I’m sure you’re aware, these haven’t beencharitable donations, and those who have contributed are now gone. Theresno one left to do this for you. If you and others want it alive, you needto step up and invest in it.Doug.On 2014-11-21, 7:30 PM, "Aaron Spear" <aspear@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:>Hi TM friends,>>I am a little unclear on what is being proposed here, but it sure looks>like you are talking about a possible end of life for RSE as we know it?>>I think you would probably be surprised just how many companies and>others are using RSE downstream.  VMware for instance is using it for>file system, terminals, and other custom services for a number of>developer SDK's targeting our main products (including ESX hypervisor,>vCenter, vCenter Orchestrator and others).  We actually have a subsystem>and such to support connecting to Windows boxes using CIFS that we were>thinking about contributing.  RSE certainly has its warts, but it still>has a place in our product lines and VMware would like to keep it around.>   I suspect there are other companies in this camp too.  Heck I find it>generally useful to have around while I am doing web development so that>I can easily edit remote configuration files in my local eclipse>seamlessly.>>Are you looking for new blood to jump in and maintain it?>>best regards,>Aaron Spear, VMware>>>-----Original Message----->From: tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On>Behalf Of Doug Schaefer>Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 9:13 AM>To: Michael Scharf; TM project developer discussions>Subject: Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM 3.7?>>We quickly discussed this on the architecture council call and it appears>there are commits happening, but it¹s not being picked up by the portal>at the moment. So it¹s not quite dead yet :). But certainly at issue.>>Doug.>>On 2014-11-13, 11:10 AM, "Michael Scharf" <eclipse@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:>>>+1 let it die unless someone steps up...>>>>Michael>>>>On 2014-11-13 15:52, Greg Watson wrote:>>> I¹m fine with this if we have everyone¹s agreement. Committers on the>>>project are:>>>>>> € Anna Dushistova>>> € David McKnight>>> € Greg Watson>>> € Kevin Doyle>>> € Martin Oberhuber>>> € Michael Scharf>>> € Uwe Stieber>>>>>> Assuming Martin and Uwe have already agreed, I¹d like to have a +1>>>from Anna, David, Kevin, and Michael before proceeding. I don¹t think>>>we can proceed unless we have at least a majority of committers voting>>>+1.>>>>>> If we go ahead with archiving TM, I suggest we use Luna SR2 for the>>>final release and withdraw from Mars.>>>>>> Here¹s a summary:>>>>>> 1. Announce TM change proposal to cross-project a. Final release of>>> TM 3.7 with Luna SR2 b. TM to withdraw from Mars 2. Agreement from>>> TCF project to host Terminal 3. Approval from PMC for restructuring>>> review 4. Restructuring review to move Terminal to TCF 5. Approval>>> from PMC for termination review 6. Termination review 7. TM is>>> archived>>>>>> Is this agreed? Anybody not in agreement?>>>>>> Thanks,>>> Greg>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 13, 2014, at 6:13 AM, Oberhuber, Martin>>><Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>><mailto:Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>>>wrote:>>>>>>> Ok.>>>> If the plan of archiving TM solidifies, we¹ll need to inform>>>>cross-project about that.>>>> Greg are you going to do that ?>>>> I could imagine that there will be a couple downstream projects who>>>>won¹t be happy about TM being archived, so better announce early.>>>> Thanks,>>>> Martin>>>> -->>>> *Martin Oberhuber*, SMTS / Product Owner ­ Development Tools,*Wind>>>>River*>>>> direct +43.662.457915.85  fax +43.662.457915.6>>>>*From:*tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>>[mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]*On Behalf Of*Stieber, Uwe>>>>*Sent:*Thursday, November 13, 2014 9:25 AM  *To:*TM project developer>>>>discussions>>>> *Subject:*Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM 3.7?>>>> Hi Martin,>>>> Sounds like a plan to me.>>>> Best regards, UweJ>>>> *From:*tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>><mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>[mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>]*O>>>>n Behalf Of*Oberhuber, Martin>>>> *Sent:*Donnerstag, 13. November 2014 08:59  *To:*TM project>>>>developer discussions>>>> *Subject:*Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM 3.7?>>>> So, following sounds like a plan:>>>> 1.Terminal is moved from TM to TCF (that¹s where the active>>>>committers>>>>are)>>>> 2.We need one more release of TM (Luna SR2 or Mars) such that we can>>>>clean up the dependencies on the Terminal  3.After that, TM can be>>>>archived as a project.>>>> Do the committers agree ?>>>> Thanks,>>>> Martin>>>> -->>>> *Martin Oberhuber*, SMTS / Product Owner ­ Development Tools,*Wind>>>>River*>>>> direct +43.662.457915.85  fax +43.662.457915.6>>>>*From:*tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>><mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>[mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>]*O>>>>n Behalf Of*Stieber, Uwe>>>> *Sent:*Thursday, November 13, 2014 8:03 AM  *To:*TM project>>>>developer discussions>>>> *Subject:*Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM 3.7?>>>> Hi Greg,>>>> Well, I can speak only for Terminal and the Terminal is definitely>>>>under active development. There might be just 2 active committers>>>>left, myself and Martin Oberhuber from time to time, but we still do>>>>changes and we still need releases.>>>> I would be OK to move out the Terminal from the TM project but the>>>>proposed common project where things like the Terminal could live>>>>does not exist yet. I¹m also fine with moving the Terminal widget to>>>>the TCF project container, but  that¹s something Martin Oberhuber>>>>needs to decide.>>>> For the Terminal, the main complains are not necessarily bugs at>>>>this point of time, the main complains are about the fact that you do>>>>have multiple Terminal views in Eclipse once RSE is installed. 2>>>>views are at least deprecated and only  the ³Terminals² view provided>>>>from the TCF project is maintained and where new features requested>>>>by the users are added. We have to get the>>>>2 other Terminal views out of Eclipse to stop the user confusion. The>>>>plan for doing this is  outlined below, but this work does have some>>>>effect on EPP packages. I can do everything outlined below, but I>>>>don¹t know how to get the EPP packages updated to include the correct>>>>features.>>>> The cleanup of the multiple Terminal views should happen for the>>>>Mars release.>>>> Regarding the committer meetings, at least for me time is limited>>>>and discussing things here instead of a shared conference call is>>>>easier to manage.>>>> Thanks, Best regards, UweJ>>>> *From:*tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>><mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>[mailto:tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>]*O>>>>n Behalf Of*Greg Watson>>>> *Sent:*Mittwoch, 12. November 2014 23:01  *To:*TM project developer>>>>discussions>>>> *Subject:*Re: [tm-dev] Master branch is TM 3.7?>>>> Hi Uwe,>>>> I¹m not sure of the plans at this point. I¹ve asked this list about>>>>the 3.6 version a couple of times but received no reply. I¹ve also>>>>invited everyone to the PTP developers conference call to discuss>>>>plans, but no one from TM ever  attended. At this point, I¹m assuming>>>>that the current release is the final release for TM.>>>> I¹m not a developer on the project, so I don¹t know what anyone¹s>>>>plans are unless they let me know. Also, developer¹s will need to>>>>step up and update the project plan, documentation, and anything else>>>>that needs to be done. I can fix the  outline of the plan, but>>>>someone else will need to fill in the details. Finally, we need>>>>people to test the builds before they are released, or we can¹t say>>>>we¹re meeting Eclipse quality. This didn¹t seem to be happening for>>>>the SR1 release.>>>> Regards,>>>> Greg>>>> On Oct 30, 2014, at 5:43 AM, Stieber, Uwe <Uwe.Stieber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>><mailto:Uwe.Stieber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:>>>>>>>> Hi Greg,>>>> Can you confirm that I¹m right in assuming that the master branch is>>>>leading to the TM 3.7 release? When will it be released? I¹ve checked>>>>the TM project pages undereclipse.org/tm>>>><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__eclipse.org_tm&d=A>>>>AIF-g&c=Sqcl0Ez6M0X8aeM67LKIiDJAXVeAw-YihVMNtXt-uEs&r=IoX6lQ05T8ggojuUJ>>>>t27Ff7wSZqFOe_BW7zihIF6LNA&m=g5KNm0_rRDpsx8IAZTePBHXZbMdB1kZoo_V--5hcjJ>>>>g&s=J15p7KqGXLIYotI2Ci3Ci_PI83Q9u9gs6TneSPJjhDk&e= >, but this pages>>>>are not up to date.>>>> If master is leading to the 3.7 release, I would like to change at>>>>least the TM Terminal feature version numbers accordingly. Also I>>>>want to tackle a few Terminal related releasing issues we keep>>>>pushing ahead of us for a long time now.>>>> Not sure if you need to announce them in some project lead meeting.>>>> 1.Deprecation of unused or no longer supported features  a.Take out>>>>the o.e.tm.terminal.view and the o.e.tm.terminal.local from the build>>>>and repositories  b.Move the source of this features to>>>>terminal/deprecated folder to keep the source around for reference>>>>c.Remove the o.e.tm.terminal.core.sdk feature as without the>>>>terminal.view feature, the usual SDK feature is the same as the>>>>core.sdk feature  2.Work on replacement for org.eclipse.rse.terminal>>>>feature  a.Remove this feature from the org.eclipse.rse feature>>>>b.Create an replacement providing the same entry points from the RSE>>>>System Explorer as the org.eclipse.rse.terminal plug-in does but use>>>>the newer and maintained TCF Terminals view. The new RSE terminal>>>>feature will be provided by the  TCF project like the TCF based file>>>>system and process RSE contributions.>>>> All effort is related to address the many complains about having up>>>>to>>>>3 different terminals views available in Eclipse. Final goal is to>>>>bundle all terminal related effort, bugfixing and feature>>>>development, into the superior TCF  Terminals view.>>>> Best regards, UweJ>>>> _______________________________________________>>>> tm-dev mailing list>>>> tm-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tm-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>  To change your>>>>delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this>>>>list, visit  >>>>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dev.eclipse.org_>>>>mailman_listinfo_tm-2Ddev&d=AAIF-g&c=Sqcl0Ez6M0X8aeM67LKIiDJAXVeAw-Yi>>>>hVMNtXt-uEs&r=IoX6lQ05T8ggojuUJt27Ff7wSZqFOe_BW7zihIF6LNA&m=g5KNm0_rR>>>>Dpsx8IAZTePBHXZbMdB1kZoo_V--5hcjJg&s=e-Iu6cCQbIlNvZ8doJvrVmB13sZh4QSJ>>>>LfLhqkD8KPM&e=  _______________________________________________>>>> tm-dev mailing list>>>> tm-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tm-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>  To change your>>>>delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this>>>>list, visit  >>>>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dev.eclipse.org_>>>>mailman_listinfo_tm-2Ddev&d=AAIF-g&c=Sqcl0Ez6M0X8aeM67LKIiDJAXVeAw-Yi>>>>hVMNtXt-uEs&r=IoX6lQ05T8ggojuUJt27Ff7wSZqFOe_BW7zihIF6LNA&m=g5KNm0_rR>>>>Dpsx8IAZTePBHXZbMdB1kZoo_V--5hcjJg&s=e-Iu6cCQbIlNvZ8doJvrVmB13sZh4QSJ>>>>LfLhqkD8KPM&e=>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________>>> tm-dev mailing list>>> tm-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or>>>unsubscribe from this list, visit>>>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dev.eclipse.org_m>>>ailman_listinfo_tm-2Ddev&d=AAIF-g&c=Sqcl0Ez6M0X8aeM67LKIiDJAXVeAw-YihV>>>MNtXt-uEs&r=IoX6lQ05T8ggojuUJt27Ff7wSZqFOe_BW7zihIF6LNA&m=g5KNm0_rRDps>>>x8IAZTePBHXZbMdB1kZoo_V--5hcjJg&s=e-Iu6cCQbIlNvZ8doJvrVmB13sZh4QSJLfLh>>>qkD8KPM&e=>>>>>>>_______________________________________________>>tm-dev mailing list>>tm-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe>>from this list, visit>>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dev.eclipse.org_ma>>ilman_listinfo_tm-2Ddev&d=AAIF-g&c=Sqcl0Ez6M0X8aeM67LKIiDJAXVeAw-YihVMN>>tXt-uEs&r=IoX6lQ05T8ggojuUJt27Ff7wSZqFOe_BW7zihIF6LNA&m=g5KNm0_rRDpsx8I>>AZTePBHXZbMdB1kZoo_V--5hcjJg&s=e-Iu6cCQbIlNvZ8doJvrVmB13sZh4QSJLfLhqkD8>>KPM&e=>>_______________________________________________>tm-dev mailing list>tm-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe>from this list, visit>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dev.eclipse.org_mailm>an_listinfo_tm-2Ddev&d=AAIF-g&c=Sqcl0Ez6M0X8aeM67LKIiDJAXVeAw-YihVMNtXt-uE>s&r=IoX6lQ05T8ggojuUJt27Ff7wSZqFOe_BW7zihIF6LNA&m=g5KNm0_rRDpsx8IAZTePBHXZ>bMdB1kZoo_V--5hcjJg&s=e-Iu6cCQbIlNvZ8doJvrVmB13sZh4QSJLfLhqkD8KPM&e=>_______________________________________________>tm-dev mailing list>tm-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe>from this list, visit>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dev.eclipse.org_mailman_listinfo_tm-2Ddev&d=AAIGaQ&c=Sqcl0Ez6M0X8aeM67LKIiDJAXVeAw-YihVMNtXt-uEs&r=IoX6lQ05T8ggojuUJt27Ff7wSZqFOe_BW7zihIF6LNA&m=u3SMWFMuLdu219uG9W6Cjc5VxLeeRAjS0UBKKtixKaU&s=-3lWJClgSsIz95Gg__igLfTHEiyMBjoNVNQyts6XeGg&e= _______________________________________________
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