Re: [mylar-dev] Fwd: My 2 cents about Mylar development

["Lubos and Alena Pochman" <pochmans@xxxxxxxxx>]

Eugene,

thanks for the response. I know that all of your comments are meant well because you have tremendous passion for Mylar and Java development.
I really enjoy reading your insightful comments not only on Mylar, but on any other programming related issues.
Problem with sarcasm (and believe me I know, I use sarcasm a lot when I am with friends who know me) is, that it doesn't translate well
in non-personal communication like email or IM. You are missing the face expressions, tone, etc.

I think, that you guys have all the rights to duke it out on devel list. The problem is that there is no users list, so if somebody is interested
in Mylar and it is not contributor, or it is just external from time to time developer, this tone can be intimidating. Therefore creating users
list, where people can freely discuss not only programming, but also usage/UI issues might make a lot of sense.

Lubos

On 5/25/07, Eugene Kuleshov <eu@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi Lubos,

  Thanks for the honest feedback. A side opinion is always valuable.

  I guess it can't be helped, no matter how hard I am trying to not
being sarcastic, it is just an old habit of mine that die hard. If
you've been around for some time you should know that I never meat to
intentionally harm, offend or upset anyone and always trying to
encourage discussion and collaboration on ideas.

  So, please don't be offended by my presence, and please do participate
into the discussion. My arrogant remarks never important, but technical
issues always are.

  regards,
  Eugene


Lubos and Alena Pochman wrote:
>
> I sent this message to Mik and he requested that I forwarded it to the
> list in order to keep this communication out in the open. I do not
> feel entirely comfortable doing that, I do not want to start flame
> war, and I do not want to hurt anybody. But I have a lot of respect
> for Mik, and for the way he manages Mylar and therefore I decided to
> forward this initially private message to Mylar dev list.
>
> Lubos Pochman
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *Lubos and Alena Pochman* < pochmans@xxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:pochmans@xxxxxxxxx>>
> Date: May 25, 2007 7:44 AM
> Subject: My 2 cents about Mylar development
> To: Mik Kersten < beatmik@xxxxxxx <mailto:beatmik@xxxxxxx>>
>
> Mik,
>
> I was following the latest discussion between you and Eugene and
> decided to use your email to comment on it, because I do not want to
> be drawn into flaming war.
> Based on my personal experience (and it is only one old man opinion
> 8-), you are right on many points, by saying that discussion the way
> Eugene does it some times,
> discourages other people to participate in discussion and maybe even
> in considering to contribute to the project.
>
> Eugene is brilliant technically and his ideas and implementations are
> great lot of times. But his social and communication skills are very
> poor and arrogant.
> I always thought that social and communication skills are not that
> important for software developers, but I think I was wrong.
> Maybe it is culture issue, but I also come from Eastern Europe and
> this behavior was not normal when I lived there.
>
> I decided to stay away from the mylar dev list as much as possible,
> and if I have some problems, I try to solve them myself (usually by
> debugging).
> People who "do not live" in Mylar code, and therefore are not Mylar
> experts cannot have the expertise of the development team members. But
> that does not mean
> that they or their programming skills are inferior.
> Note, that this is just one man opinion, and I very much appreciate
> contributions Eugene makes to Mylar. Maybe I am just too sensitive.
> I am big fan of open source, and I am managing one open source project
> myself (Luntbuild), but I can honestly say, that Mylar is one project
> I would not join as
> developer, because of this "unfriendly" environment.
>
> I think, that you are doing great job managing the project and Mylar
> has great potential! I am big fan of Mylar as a user.
> But maybe it would be good idea to separate dev mailing list and user
> mailing list, and keep the passionate and sometimes "scary" discussion
> in dev list,
> and keep Mylar user related discussion in users list, where developers
> would participate, but they would use more user friendly approach to
> the discussion.
>
> Sorry for the rumbling, Lubos

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