Re: [epp-dev] FW: Java package

["Eric Rizzo" <eclipse-mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I want to point out that from the users' perspective, it's not primarily
the size of the SDK/Standard package that is a problem; it's all the
"unnecessary" stuff (unnecessary to the average Java developer) that it
exposes in the UI. It can easily cause confusion to new users, or even
seasoned users who have never been exposed to PDE and its
tools/complexity. This is in addition to the confusion about what package
to download in the first place.

I and others have said many times that the listing of packages sorted by #
of downloads is kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy J. Whatever is at the
top is going to get more clicks, no matter what package it is. As someone
already pointed out, the fact that Standard is far-and-away the most
downloaded package illustrates the problem; no way are most users really
interested in plugin/RCP development.

As a "community guy" I'm totally in favor of a name like "Eclipse IDE for
Plugin/RCP Developers" as it is much more clear and contrasts easily with
Eclipse IDE for Java Developers.

Eric

> From: epp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:epp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Doug Schaefer
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 9:53 AM
> To: Eclipse Packaging Project
> Subject: Re: [epp-dev] Java package
>
> The standard package is 200MB (Mac 64-bit) and the Java one is 160MB. It
> would be interesting to see how much bigger the combined package would be.
>
> But I agree the "standard" name is really bad. So was Classic. It doesn't
> give the user any hint at what it's for. You can call it the Eclipse IDE
> for Eclipse developers, but then I want all the stuff from the Java
> project there as well, which is why I bring it up. As an Eclipse developer
> I want things like m2e available.
>
> And I totally agree that users will download the first one they see if
> they don't understand the choice. There aren't 3+ million Eclipse
> developers out there, or we'd have a lot more plugins ;)
>
> Doug.
>
> ________________________________
> From: epp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:epp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> [epp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] on behalf of Markus Knauer
> [mknauer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 2:10 AM
> To: Eclipse Packaging Project
> Subject: Re: [epp-dev] Java package
> Historically, the creation of the Java package was one of the main reasons
> to start with EPP. At that point in time we've heard the criticism from
> the community, that the SDK was "too large" and "contains too much that is
> not required for Java development". That was what we addressed with the
> Java package: A small package that is dedicated to the Java-only
> programmers or the programmers that want to start with a small package and
> add incrementally other tools to it.
> And then we created a package and called it "standard"... this and the
> fact that it is always on the top of the list on the download page is in
> my opinion the main reason, why people are downloading it. No wonder...
> and my guess is that the majority is downloading something that is not
> ideal for them. From a marketing standpoint the package name 'standard'
> was a really clever move, but in my opinion (now) it is not ideal from a
> users point of view.
> Yes, people are confused, but having the Java package makes still sense to
> me. Instead of dropping (or merging) the two packages, I would prefer to
> enhance the description of the standard package or find other ways to help
> people to differentiate between the two packages.
> Thanks,
> Markus
>
> On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 7:24 PM, Doug Schaefer
> <dschaefer@xxxxxxx<mailto:dschaefer@xxxxxxx>> wrote:
> ýHey gang, Just a thought as I was looking through the downloads page.
> Would it make sense to merge the Eclipse Standard package with the Java
> one?
>
> Given the numbers, I think people are confused between the two. If people
> perceive that Eclipse is a Java IDE, why have two entriesý for it. What
> does Eclipse Standard even mean if not the Java IDE.
>
> Thoughts?
> Doug.
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Rogers network.
>
> _______________________________________________
> epp-dev mailing list
> epp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:epp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/epp-dev
>
>