[platform-update-dev] Re: [eclipse-dev] Planning Meeting Notes - Nov 12,

[Jan Schulz <jasc@xxxxxxx>]

Hello Peter,

* Peter Manahan wrote:
>Moved to platform-update-dev for continuing saga :-).

Ok, I'm now subscribed. :)

>I've interjected some more comments below. I am realizing that most do
>not know that there are two .config directories which may be where the
>confusion is.

True, i didn't know that there are now two .config files. Seems that I
really should get my hands on a 3.0 build. Are the major changes
(layout of the plugins for RCP) finaly over?

I repaired the quoting levels...

>There is more that one .config. There is the system .config and then
>there is the workspace .config. Whenever you create a new workspace
>the system .config is used.

So the system .config is actually a kind of template?

>>.config is actually not something, which belongs to /etc, as it is
>>initialized by the programm and not by the admin (or package 
>>manager/programmers).
>That is only true for the workspace .config. The "-initialize" flag
>for eclipse was created specifically to generate a common .config dir
>by an installer. I was the one that asked for it so I know this to be
>true.

How will that play with 'per user' sites, like they are doable with
the patch from https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=36101

Haveing a mechanism to include different 'linked in locations' on
every run will play hell with any 'preconfigured' .config, when it
can't adapt to this behaviour.

>So for WSAD when we used rpm to create an eclipse package for linux
>the post-install step step was to run "eclipse -initialize" to create
>"default" user config.

Ok, that isn't a problem for me.

>From a usability perspective having eclipse showing the "eclipse
>completeling the install" splash seems to have confused many users. So
>a way was needed to freeze the default configuration at install time.
        
I don't think that 'freezing' this is a good thing. As I said, on *ix
it is common that you have three place where you search for
plugins/extentions and such things: the first is in /usr, where the
package manager installs something. The second is /usr/local, where
the local admin installs soemthing. And then there is $HOME/. This
freeze only works, when you only consider the first two. 

Whats actually so bad about the 'completing the install' splash? Maybe
something like 'writing initial data' or 'Found new plugins, updating
plugin registry...' or just nothing would be better. There are several
apps out there, which need an intial run and noone bothers with that...

>>Fun. Now considere a university, where the admin isntalls eclipse. Now
>>a user wants to install a new plugin.
>This was which is why in 3.0 that eclipse is moving the workspace
>.config out of the workspace and having a user based .config.

Does it solve the issue, that *users* will be able to add a plugin
location ("site") of his/her own?

>They
>system .config should still be there and should be created by the
>administrator. That is it's purpose.

So the only thing which is in .config is something like a cache of the
list of all available plugins? Sounds like some userspace thing to me.
Or at least something which should go to /usr/share or even /var.

>Initially it wasn't realized that people would use multiple workspaces
>instead of just one. That is why there is so much preference/user
>configuration information in the workspace in 2.x. Eclipse 3.0 is
>supposed to remove the user configurations/preferences from the
>workspace. 

Which is BTW a really great thing!

> Agreed the links files shouldn't be in the eclipse directory. There
> should be a way to point to the links directory instead. The default

No, actually there should be UI for including any dir as a 'site'
(site as the 'PlatformConfiguration' class uses it: a dir which has a
plugins and features dir inside. Currently this two dirs need to be
inside a 'eclipse' dir :( )

> windowing system is motif so there isn't a need for that.

That depends on the compile flags... the eclipse binary starter gets a
flag, and if thats gtk, the '-ws gtk' flag is passed at runtime. This
should be overwritable in a file or UI (and both fragments should be
installable together, which they aren't in 2.x stream (this seems to
be fixed in 3.0: 35580)), so that eclipse can be started by *one* menu
entry, without requireing the user to change the target of that menu
entry.

>WSAD stores the user's current workspace and windowing system choices
>in a configuration file in the users's home directory.

Thats nice. Why does eclipse doesn't do it? Is it able to cope with
'newer' ws implementations like fox?

Jan
-- 
Jan Schulz                     jasc@xxxxxxx
     "Wer nicht fragt, bleibt dumm."