Re: [platform-ui-dev] Auto-save questions

[Sopot Cela <scela@xxxxxxxxxx>]

> > the act of unzipping shouldn't exactly be seen as somewhat advanced
> 
> The oomph scripts do an awful lot more than unzipping. They produce a
> workspace containing the code you want to work on that compiles correctly
> with no user configuration.

As I already pointed out, I 'simulated' the workflow of a person who only needs to download and run Eclipse, with no interest whatsoever on getting Eclipse code itself. They are the vast majority and its their workflow I wanted to test. By no means I want anyone to infer that Oomph is useless in general.

> > I do not use Oomph for setting up my development environment. In fact I
> > never have and don't know how to do it.
> > But also I don't have any interest to know at this point. I believe this is
> > what is described as 'manual' in this thread
> > and I intend to keep doing that.
> 
> You're entitled to use whatever workflow you find comfortable. However, I
> think we were discussing what workflow we should be documenting on the
> website.

No we were actually discussing about auto-save, that's why I said that I shouldn't be hijacking the thread more than I have.

> 
> From the comments, above, it sounds like there may be a problem with our
> Oomph scripts, our public P2 repositories, or git servers, or some
> combination of the above. Sure, there's no reason not to document
> workarounds, but I hope that we can direct the greatest amount of attention
> toward fixing the problems themselves.

Oh I did that of course. For what is fixable, it resulted in respective dev list messages and bugs. I intervened here because of something I previously thought was isolated, popped up on Dirk's workflow also.

> - Stefan
> 
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 3:11 PM Stefan Xenos < sxenos@xxxxxxxxxx > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > @Stefan
> > Why are you against adding the old information as a second path? If
> > something fails with oomph users should be
> > still able to workaround with the manual installation path.
> 
> I'm concerned about two things:
> 1. Having to keep both the manual instructions and oomph setup in sync. If we
> add a new build dependency or required preference, we don't want the manual
> instructions to get.
> 2. We don't want to overload new users with unnecessary extra steps (those
> who just want to contribute to the code and aren't trying to do anything
> advanced).
> 
> I'd suggest we deal with (1) by auto-generating the manual instructions from
> the oomph setup files. Since the .setup files are just declarative XML, it
> shouldn't be too hard to auto-convert them into an HTML page - much like we
> do with extension point schemas. In that case, there would only be one
> source of truth - the oomph scripts - but people would still have access to
> user-readable doc if they want it.
> 
> We could deal with (2) by putting the manual steps on a separate page and
> linking to it from the main page. Right up at the top, it could say "if you
> don't want to run the installer and would prefer to set up your environment
> manually, please see <these steps>". That way, anyone scrolling through the
> page quickly won't be overloaded with instructions but anyone who is
> actually looking for the manual steps can find them.
> 
> - Stefan
> 
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:32 AM Sopot Cela < scela@xxxxxxxxxx > wrote:
> 
> 
> Thanks for the hints.
> 
> I do not use Oomph for setting up my development environment. In fact I never
> have and don't know how to do it. But also I don't have any interest to know
> at this point. I believe this is what is described as 'manual' in this
> thread and I intend to keep doing that.
> 
> My experience with Oomph was in just downloading and using eclipse as a
> 'Simple Joe' from the website and start doing Hello World so I didn't even
> go into Advanced mode. This experience was considerably worse than
> downloading and unzipping. And considering that our target audience are
> developers, the act of unzipping shouldn't exactly be seen as somewhat
> advanced. However I don't want to hijack this thread with my personal
> opinions on this side-topic.
> 
> Sopot
> 
> ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
> > Van: "Patrik Suzzi" < psuzzi@xxxxxxxxx >
> > Aan: "Eclipse Platform UI component developers list." <
> > platform-ui-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx >
> > Verzonden: Woensdag 13 juli 2016 12:48:56
> > Onderwerp: Re: [platform-ui-dev] Auto-save questions
> > 
> > In the last days I saw some slowdown in Oomph,
> > that means that probably everyone is using it, and the Git/Gerrit repos are
> > receiving lots of clone-requests
> > 
> > To speed-up Oomph installation, I recommend:
> > - using the p2 .bundlepools (this should be default)
> > - using
> > ${git.container.root/}${@id.remoteURI|gitRepository}-${@id.checkoutBranch}
> > as git-clone rule
> > 
> > As:
> > - With the bundlepools getting the IDE bundles is quick
> > - With a fixed git repo url, you reuse existing code -> getting the source
> > is
> > Quick.
> > 
> > Example for Platform UI setup
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Best Regards,
> > 
> > Patrik Suzzi
> > Software Engineer, Eclipse
> > Platform UI Committer
> > https://about.me/psuzzi
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 10:54 AM, Sopot Cela < scela@xxxxxxxxxx > wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
> > > Van: "Dirk Fauth" < dirk.fauth@xxxxxxxxx >
> > > Aan: "Eclipse Platform UI component developers list." <
> > > platform-ui-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx >
> > > Verzonden: Woensdag 13 juli 2016 10:45:27
> > > Onderwerp: Re: [platform-ui-dev] Auto-save questions
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Ok, maybe I misinterpreted some discussions. In that case nevermind.
> > > Sorry
> > > for the noise.
> > > 
> > > Regarding the oomph Setup. I have installed platform-ui and
> > > platform-runtime.
> > > The freeze monitoring is enabled by default. I can see in the progress
> > > information that resolving the bundle dependencies is taking the time.
> > > 
> > > I'm not sure what is wrong. The installation via oomph took hours. But
> > > that
> > > is probably an issue with the infrastructure we are seeing the last days.
> > > I
> > 
> > I also decided to give a test drive to Oomph on Windows and it took at
> > least
> > half an our to collect everything. In the meantime I downloaded and
> > unzipped
> > the zip version a couple of times. I didn't react with a bug as I also
> > blamed it on infra. However it remains that for the first-time downloader
> > (what we offer on eclipse.org ), it doesn't really matter where the issue
> > lies. All they see is zip downloading is faster (if they manage to find the
> > zip).
> > 
> > Also on Linux the installer is a zip. If I have to unzip the installer and
> > run it, I might as well unzip eclipse itself.
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> > 
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