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Re: [platform-swt-dev] Using 'triaged' keywordinsteadofswt-triaged@xxxxxxxxxxx?
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> There are already
600+ bugs with the "Triaged" keyword in the keyword list.Please... In the Eclipse top-level project
there are exactly 6 bugs with that keyword and guess who has set it?> Can you explain
why you prefer to use "Assigned" status to mean triaged instead
of using the existing "Triaged" keyword? Because it's the process we use for
over 15 years. Because it's faster to just assign a bug than fiddling with
the keyword field.DaniFrom:
Leo Ufimtsev <Leonidas@xxxxxxxxxx>To:
"Eclipse Platform
SWT component developers list." <platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>Date:
15.06.2017 16:35Subject:
Re: [platform-swt-dev]
Using 'triaged' keyword insteadofswt-triaged@xxxxxxxxxxx?Sent by:
platform-swt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 3:30 AM, Daniel Megert <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:> I also assumed
that "assigned" means that someone is assigned to work on this
bug.
Correct and that is why the bugs assigned to *-triaged@xxxxxxxxxxxare in the NEW and not the ASSIGNED status.
-1 for a new keyword, but getting rid of the *-triaged@xxxxxxxxxxxassignee. That would align the only two projects (Platform UI and SWT)
to all others. All other projects mark their triaged bugs by leaving them
in the "normal" inobx, i.e. *-Inbox@xxxxxxxxxxxand simply change the status to ASSIGNED.@Daniel, "Triaged" is not a new keyword, it
is already part of the keyword list and it's actively being used. There
are already 600+ bugs with the "Triaged" keyword in the keyword
list.As mentioned above, you can have keywords listed in the
search results, so it's easy to distinguish. Keywords can also be added/removed
in bulk, so it's easy enough to manage them.My concern is that using "Assigned" to mean
"New and Triaged" is not intuitively clear to the user. Where
as having a bug assigned to platform-swt-inbox and status "New"
with the keywords "Triaged, helpwanted" is much more clear.
Can you explain why you prefer to use "Assigned"
status to mean triaged instead of using the existing "Triaged"
keyword? In what way would it make bugzilla easier for outside users to
read/understand bugzilla or why would it be easier/faster to use "Assigned"
instead of "Triaged" keyword?
If we decide to to this, we should ask the webmaster to mass move the existing
-triaged@xxxxxxxxxxxover to *-Inbox@xxxxxxxxxxxand set the status to ASSIGNED (without sending e-mails).I don't mind this being done for platform-ui, but for
SWT I'd rather work my way through existing swt-triaged bugs and check
if they're actually still valid. (like maybe do 10-30 bugs/day etc..),
weed out duplicates etc..
Dani
From: Lars
Vogel <lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Eclipse
Platform SWT component developers list." <platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 15.06.2017
08:40
Subject: Re:
[platform-swt-dev] Using 'triaged' keyword instead
ofswt-triaged@xxxxxxxxxxx?
Sent by: platform-swt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
Hi,
I also assumed that "assigned" means that someone is assigned
to work on this bug.
+1 for changing the process.
Best regards, Lars
Am 14.06.2017 11:11 nachm. schrieb "Leo Ufimtsev" <Leonidas@xxxxxxxxxx>:
Hello Niraj,
Thank you for your reply.
I think in general since SWT is a public project, we should aim to make
it as clear and simple as possible for users to find bugs and make it easy
for them to understand where things are with the bug. They shouldn't understand
"our" work flow, but it should be pretty obvious how things are
just at a glance.
In turn, we should adapt our work flow, in as much as possible, to meet
the goal above.
To avoid ambiguity, "Triage" is a quick process by which we fix
the meta-data of a bug. (e.g check for duplicates, make sure it's assigned
to correct component, [optionally] test to see if bugs reproduce, etc..).
It's a quick evaluation of the 'quality' of a bug. See:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management/How_to_triage
I.e, triage does not mean someone will actually work on the bug. It's just
a quality check for a bug.
I think having a bug in "assigned" and on platform-swt-inbox@xxxxxxxxxxxis
ok if someone (or a group of people) are actually actively working
on the bug. But using "assigned" to mean "triaged",
(meaning it could take a year or more before anyone starts working on a
bug), would not set proper expectations to users who are reading the bug.
If the bug is on "new", then users can ping us on the mailing
list and ask us to look into the bug. But if it's assigned, then it can
be ambiguous / unclear about the progress of the bug.
To answer some points:
1) Keyword in Query
- Keyword field is also not visible in the bugzilla query results page,
whereas Status field is.
It is actually with a little tweak: You can add keywords via the "change
columns" button such that it appears in the search results:
Once configured, keyword will always be there.
2) Status
- Anyone looking at the bug would look at the Status and Target fields,
rather than the Keyword field.
That's true. But they will see "ASSIGNED" and and think that
someone's working on it, where as in fact it's just in the queue to be
worked on. In such case "NEW" would be a more accurate description
of the bug status.
But you make a good point. Perhaps we could post a comment like "we
should fix this" or "we should investigate", to help people
identify the progress of the bug thou?
3) Duration
we have been doing this(NEW to ASSIGNED even without assigning to a person)
for so long
Doing something for a long time doesn't mean it's the most user friendly
way of doing it thou :-)
4) Other projects
also other Eclipse projects also following the same.
But other projects are also using keyword "triaged" as well thou.
If you search for "triaged" keyword, there are 600+ bugs:
So it seems we have a choice about how we go about doing it.
5) Individual vs team:
So, for us ASSIGNED status means either assigned to an individual or a
team.
Well, if something is assigned to a team, the underlying assumption is
that it will be fixed/looked/investigated. But what we're doing is assigning
it to a team means the bug was "triaged", which can be ambiguous/confusing.
So to summarize, I suggest something along the line of the following:
Thoughts?
On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 5:28 AM, Niraj Modi <niraj.modi@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi Leo,
Yes, your point is valid. But, we have been doing this(NEW to ASSIGNED
even without assigning to a person) for so long and also other Eclipse
projects also following the same.
So, for us ASSIGNED status means either assigned to an individual or a
team.
Possible reasons which I see why this must have got into practice:
- Anyone looking at the bug would look at the Status and Target fields,
rather than the Keyword field.
- Also Keyword field is also not visible in the bugzilla query results
page, whereas Status field is.
Thanks & Regards,
Niraj Modi
From: Leo
Ufimtsev <Leonidas@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Eclipse
Platform SWT component developers list." <platform-swt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 06/06/2017
07:19 PM
Subject: Re:
[platform-swt-dev] Using 'triaged' keyword instead of
swt-triaged@xxxxxxxxxxx?
Sent by: platform-swt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 4:32 AM, Lakshmi P Shanmugam <lakshmipriya.bms@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi Leo,
+1 to stop moving bugs to swt-triaged@xxxxxxxxxxx.
To mark the bug as triaged, we could change the Status field of bug from
NEW to ASSIGNED. Some developers already do this, but not consistently.
May be all of us could follow this? We should update this in the triage
page as well (once we agree).
I have concerns that using "Assigned" status could be miss-understood
as someone actually working on the bug (See workflow diagram below)
I.e, using "assigned" in this way might make users think that
someone is working on the problem, where as in fact the bug is just in
the queue to be worked on. (Think of users who stumble into bugs through
stackoverflow or google..)
The 'triaged' keyword is a bit less intrusive and still allows us to filter
bugs as triaged and non triaged.
Thoughts?
https://www.bugzilla.org/docs/2.16/html/how.html
Thanks & Regards,
Lakshmi P Shanmugam
On 2 June 2017 at 00:42, Leo Ufimtsev <Leonidas@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
(I've had some issues with the mailing list, sorry if you received this
message multiple times).
Hello folks,
I propose a change in how we triage bugs:
Our traditional triage (1*) procedure is to inspect new bugs for
proper classification, presence of a snippet etc and then re-assign those
bugs from
platform-swt-inbox@xxxxxxxxxxx
to:
swt-triaged@xxxxxxxxxxx
However the problem here is that some developers follow platform-swt-inbox@xxxxxxxxxxx,
but not swt-triaged@xxxxxxxxxxx.
So triaged bugs seem to get less attention.
(Side note: their name is also quite similar (Project-SWT-Inbox)
vs (Project-Inbox))
I propose instead that we add the 'triaged' keyword to bugs that were triaged
and leave them assigned to Project-swt-inbox.
As for current bugs, we could slowly migrate all bugs to platform-swt-inbox
and add 'triaged' keyword as we go along, closing irrelevant/old bugs.
(as oppose to a bulk update).
I could update the relevant documentation for the job at hand. (1*).
Thoughts?
--
Leo Ufimtsev
Software Engineer
Red
Hat
90 Eglinton Ave E #502,
Toronto, ON M4P 2Y3
Leonidas@xxxxxxxxxx
CHAT:
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Software Engineer
Red
Hat
90 Eglinton Ave E #502,
Toronto, ON M4P 2Y3
Leonidas@xxxxxxxxxx
CHAT:
- IRC: http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#swt
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Leo Ufimtsev
Software Engineer
Red
Hat
90 Eglinton Ave E #502,
Toronto, ON M4P 2Y3
Leonidas@xxxxxxxxxx
CHAT:
- IRC: http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#swt
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Red
Hat
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Toronto, ON M4P 2Y3
Leonidas@xxxxxxxxxx
CHAT:
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