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Re: [phoenix-dev] Interesting Quote
Personally I think the navigation isn't too bad now for getting to downloads. The EPP downloads have really helped. But I think the front page is too cluttered and makes people think there is too much complicated stuff when they first show up. Eclipse is complicated but it doesn't have to seem that way to start with. A simple page with only the menu bar across the top, the ads, and a few main links like "Start Here," "Get Eclipse," "Donate!," and "Get Involved" might be a good start. Do we have any stats on how many of those other things on the front page anyone clicks on? If not we could start using Google Analytics or something similar on all of our web properties to get a better picture of site navigation. Then just promote the things people actually use on the front page.
One other thing I think we could really sort out is to help people figure out which of our confusing project names they are interested in after they have started using Eclipse. The newcomers.php page has a little bit of this but I think it's buried too far and incomplete. Instead we could have an easy to find page that says "Here's what I want to do" and has a simple list of things you might want to do with Eclipse as a -->user<--, then tells you which projects you want to use, and gives you either an EPP package download or the update site URLs right there, with a link to a wiki page or help.eclipse.org page on using update sites. So things like: 

"I want to develop PHP code"
"I want to write Java J2EE applications"
"I want to write embedded C"
As a benefit more directly to members on this page we could also provide links to our members' products that fit the bill. 

Karl



Nick Boldt wrote:
Yes, but we can't just bundle our IDE w/ a JDK and call it a day like Sun does. :) We have a much more diverse contributor community, so we need to represent those projects & the member companies. Or at least that's been the model until now, and with the recent addition of ads, I'm guessing that we're not planning to move in a more "code first, companies & projects second" direction. It's still producers over products at this point, which for Joe "I just want to download an IDE" Average-User, there's (apparently) a lot of overhead.
I notice there's a too-subtle link on the homepage for "New to Eclipse?" [1] -- could that link be enhanced to get its own graphical hero spot? 

[1] http://www.eclipse.org/home/newcomers.php
On the Newcomers FAQ page [1], the details on how to download Eclipse are buried as text links just barely above the fold. Where are the pretty orange download links? The per-package icons? Why do we bury important links as text instead of obvious navigational links & graphical buttons? (I'm guilty of this too.) 

--
Maybe we need some sort of download wizard or "Eclipse Experience Optimizer" like what Rogers has recently installed [2] for determining what type of user you are & therefore what level of bandwidth you require: 

[2] http://www.rogers.com/keepingpace/
"New to Eclipse? Click here to choose the best Eclipse download for your needs."
A simple UI for selecting the various options available through EPP [3] by asking a few questions might be considered easier than what we have now. 

[3] http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/moreinfo/compare.php
It would also be great if everything had a consistent look and feel, unlike, say, http://download.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/ which is STILL blue, 2 years after the rise of the Phoenix. Yeccch. 

$0.02,

Nick
On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Mike Milinkovich <mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote: 

    http://www.indicthreads.com/articles/1189/netbeans_jdeveloper_eclipse_java_ide.html


    Money quote (emphasis mine):


    jdeveloper netbeans eclipse*Download & Installation -* The
    installation procedures for all three tools are simple enough. You
    either have to run an installer or have to extract a compressed
    file and you are ready to go. Downloading NetBeans
    <http://dlc.sun.com.edgesuite.net/netbeans/6.1/beta/> and
    JDeveloper
    <http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/jdev/index.html>
    is easier than Eclipse <http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/> /_as
    Eclipse has one of the most confusing websites around. 10s of
    projects and 100s of download possibilities_/.


    Looks like we still have some serious work to do.


    Mike Milinkovich

    Executive Director

    Eclipse Foundation, Inc.

    Office: +1.613.224.9461 x228

    Mobile: +1.613.220.3223

    mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx>


    blog: http://milinkovich.blogspot.com


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