Skip to main content
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index] [List Home]
Re: [pde-dev] Discontinue API Tools ( was Re: What do API tools want here?)
Congrats for finding the root case, I would have never though about something like hat would be the cause!
For sure we should improve our tools (and I already did some trivial enhancements), the most problematic here (and on other issues as well) is that there seem not many people actually can give some guidance and the code is not very self explaining (to me) why what happens... and then contributing to it becomes really a nightmare if you do not even understand why the error happens and (until now) no one even has a clue.
And as you noticed, the problem is not that one is not willing to contribute but there is literally no response for months, so one can really get the impression the code base is dead/unmaintained state... 

Am 07.11.22 um 08:52 schrieb Ed Merks:
It seems to me that we often tell people who complain about a problem that a PR would be most welcome.   In this case where we have a problem with a shoe and "we" are the shoemaker of that shoe, that suggestion seems even more appropriate.  We are PDE...
In any case, you opened https://github.com/eclipse-pde/eclipse.pde/issues/378 and the issue was determined to be a surprising and nasty corner case of our own manufacture.  So I think we can now safely call off the demolition crew. 

-----------------
It is frustrating that there is little in the way of responsiveness when asking questions.  For example I *know *there is a bug in org.eclipse.pde.api.tools.internal.builder.Reference.getParameterList(), and I have a fix for it (I think).  But I don't know what exactly that method is supposed to do, so I asked in the bug where that method was introduced: 

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=332767

That was almost a month ago...


On 06.11.2022 07:09, Christoph Läubrich wrote:

> I understand and agree that the current situation is unpleasant or
> better annoying.

611 failing test anyone? ;-)
That's just another example, we have random failures, none seem to know why or what can be done even though we have tried some things but it still occurs. 

> In case it would require more time/effort to adjust the existing code
> base to the new tooling (e.g. remove all required-bundles) it could be
> simpler to fix the PDE API-tools instead.
For sure it depends on the tooling, and I won't recommend to just migrate everything, but it seems code debt for API tools is increasing and actually no one "simply fix it" even simple(?) ones like [1] just hanging around.
So it is better to decide if there is a future for API tools or if we better look *now* for alternatives and let user know there is most likely no more support for them (similar for pde-build that seems unmaintained for a long time as well!). 



[1] https://github.com/eclipse-pde/eclipse.pde/issues/124



Am 05.11.22 um 22:19 schrieb Hannes Wellmann:
I understand and agree that the current situation is unpleasant or better annoying. Nevertheless we need some form of API tooling and I don't know if other techniques and tools can deal better with the PDE specialties like re-exported Required-Bundles (which is likely causing your issues)? 
What would be the alternatives in this case?
In case it would require more time/effort to adjust the existing code base to the new tooling (e.g. remove all required-bundles) it could be simpler to fix the PDE API-tools instead. Using Re-export in general is bad and I fully agree/support improving PDE's Import-Package support in general but since probably many rely on re-exported require-bundle that it will take some time and discussion to get rid of that and will probably not work until there is a equivalent convenient solution available (like automatically calculated Import-Packages) But my blind guess is that other tools (probably from BND?) would also have their difficulties with that.  > as even the build-setup is horrible complex and hard to perform including calling helper mojos and ant scripts. Since we are working on a API-tools plugin at Tycho, that problem should no longer exists in the not to distance future (I hope to have time to continue my work on that soon). Furthermore I had the intention to improve PDE's API tools in the future with regard to detecting necessary version bumps in Features and Plugins already in the IDE. That being said, if there is a 'drop-in' replacement for PDE's API tools I would not object to use that instead. But I would not assume that such immediate drop-in exists, but please correct me if I'm wrong. Nevertheless, if a suitable library exists we could consider to use that in the core of PDE's API tools and add reasonable PDE specialties on top of that. 
Greetings,
Hannes
*Gesendet:* Samstag, 05. November 2022 um 15:31 Uhr
*Von:* "Christoph Läubrich" <laeubi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*An:* pde-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
*Betreff:* [pde-dev] Discontinue API Tools ( was Re: What do API tools want here?) 
So now three month later, still no one know why API tools complains, or
even what the error message means. Ed has done some analysis and even
found that all quick fixes are broken here and even adding code in mini
steps do not help any further.

For me the question is if there is no support, no maintenance or
development available if it is time to discontinue API tools, as even
the build-setup is horrible complex and hard to perform including
calling helper mojos and ant scripts.

SO if PDE itself can't master its own API tools I think its time to face
the truth and recommend to stop using it and migrate to other techniques. 

Am 06.08.22 um 08:16 schrieb Christoph Läubrich:
 > Hi PDE-Devs,
 >
 > I have a strange error from the API tools and no clue what it want here, 
 > the error is:
 >
 > The type org.eclipse.pde.ui.launcher.AbstractPDELaunchConfiguration has 
 > been removed from org.eclipse.pde.ui_3.14.0
 >
 > see build [1]
 > and PR [2]
 >
 > Any hint would be welcome ... I think it would be the best to directly 
 > add any comments to the PR.
 >
 >
 > [1] https://ci.eclipse.org/pde/job/eclipse.pde.ui/job/PR-214/6/consoleFull <https://ci.eclipse.org/pde/job/eclipse.pde.ui/job/PR-214/6/consoleFull>  > [2] https://github.com/eclipse-pde/eclipse.pde/pull/214 <https://github.com/eclipse-pde/eclipse.pde/pull/214> 
 > _______________________________________________
 > pde-dev mailing list
 > pde-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
 > To unsubscribe from this list, visit
 > https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/pde-dev <https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/pde-dev> 
_______________________________________________
pde-dev mailing list
pde-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/pde-dev <https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/pde-dev> 

_______________________________________________
pde-dev mailing list
pde-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/pde-dev 
_______________________________________________
pde-dev mailing list
pde-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/pde-dev 

_______________________________________________
pde-dev mailing list
pde-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/pde-dev

Back to the top