Re: [orion-dev] User Experience Call

[Kris De Volder <kdvolder@xxxxxxxxxx>]

----- Original Message -----
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 9:37 AM, Kris De Volder <kdvolder@xxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > A few items on my list:
> >
> > 1. Navigation sucks. Every time I try to use the navigator, I loose
> > my editor.
> 
> Kris did you try the new 'open in new tab' option?  (I always use
> open
> in new tab with orion).

My feedback may be based on 'stale' information. But even before this option was there.
I could already do this by 'Right Click'. That helps a little but my editor still
becomes invisible. And there is a limit to how many tabs you can have open and 
still easily find that one tab you are interested in.

> 
> > 2. Searching is confusing.
> 
> Which version are you using? This was fixed recently for me.
> 
> >  - I have little confidence in the search results and
> >    generally don't know how enter queries that will find what I'm
> >    looking for
> >   (e.g can I just search for a verbatim String and find *every*
> >   occurence of it?
> >   It seems not, because the text gets cut up into 'words' and we
> >   are searching
> >   for words?)
> >  - The indexer gets confused by linked folders on my local drive.
> >  (e.g. it
> >    doesn't remove the contents after I delete the link).
> >  => When I was using orion before to edit / work, I tended to just
> >  use
> >   the editor (which I actually like better than the standard
> >   eclipse one :-)
> >  But I went to eclipse to search for stuff in my workspace.
> >
> > 3. git ui.
> >  The UI is ofputting to me. So much so, that I really didn't bother
> >  much
> >  trying to use it. I just use local git commandline and other tools
> >  like gitg that I'm accustomed to using.
> 
> In my experience the git-status page is better than the command line
> for commit related tasks. The UI shows the state without having to
> type "git status" over and over.
> 
> The git log page is also helpful because of the branch annotations
> and
> cherry pick options.
> 
> The git repositories page is way too slow and verbose. The git
> (single) repository page is also verbose, but it is faster; the log
> listing is slow and too long. There does not seem to be a way to
> fetch
> new branches from remote.
> 
> I think there is an important role for git GUI.

I don't disagree on this. I just found my initial try out
of it, which is quite a while ago I admit... too offputting
to want to use it. 

I do like GUI tools. I use gitg as much as possible. It shows me a nice
graph-view of branches / history and lets me view diffs and do commits,
rebases, merges by clicking in that graph.

Things it can't do I go to the commandline (after some google searching to
figure out what to type :-)

> Many users new to git
> struggle. Many users only need one simple workflow.  If Orion can
> provide a few workflows with Git it will be a big help.  I doubt any
> GUI will help experts, git is just too complex.

I'm not an expert. And I'm not advocating for ditching the GUI.
But I think the GUI will *never* be complete.

> 
> > 4. logging in again, and again... and again is annoying to me as
> > well.
> 
> +1
> 
> > 5. I don't like to use favorites, so the empty area on the left
> > side of the editor
> >  is a waste of space (maybe put a navigator, or remove it
> >  alltogether,
> >  having it empty is useless) Yes, I can close it. But still.
> 
> +1
> 
> > 6. The default editor font is too big.
> > 7. It needs to be more easy to work with multiple editors (I can
> > open multiple
> >   browser windows, close stuff I don't want (favourites), configure
> >   my browser
> >   to hide its own navbars etc. Then carefully put these windows
> >   side-by side...
> >   But this is really too much work to setup a spit screen editor
> >   environment.
> 
> This is a result of relying on browser tab management. I see no
> motion
> by browsers to improve this.

If so, then perhaps some other solution needs to be considered. 
I *do* want side-by side editors. If the position on this is
that this simply isn't possible because of browser tab management, 
that's very disappointing.

> 
> >
> > Kris
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> I probably won't be able to join the call, but here are some
> >> things
> >> that I notice:
> >>
> >> 1. When opening the splash screen for the first time after
> >> restarting
> >> my browser, there is a 4-5 second wait for the page to appear.
> >>  I'm
> >> not exactly sure what is happening during this time, but it is not
> >> waiting to download scripts since this happens when I run Orion
> >> locally.  I've seen this on Chrome, but not Firefox.
> >>
> >> 2. The git UI is cumbersome compared to a command line (I know we
> >> have
> >> had this discussion before, but I am just reiterating).  The git
> >> UI
> >> is
> >> not optimized for the workflow that I typically use.  Eg- Pull
> >> from
> >> remote A, rebase onto my master, push to remote B.  On the command
> >> line, this take 3-5 seconds depending on the size of the pull.  In
> >> Orion, this takes 20-30 seconds while waiting for each page to
> >> reload.
> >>  I am not necessarily suggesting that we optimize for this
> >>  particular
> >> workflow.  Rather I am saying that there are so many potential
> >> workflows that I cannot see how the UI can possibly handle all of
> >> them.  But, I do have to say that the new git diff view is very,
> >> very
> >> nice.
> >>
> >> 3. Frequent logouts.  I tend to run Orion locally and I find that
> >> every time my machine wakes up, I need to log in again.
> >>
> >> 4. In the git status page, the commit message box is not editable
> >> until there is at least one staged change.
> >>
> >> 5. The "Get plugins" page should have a link to go to the plugins
> >> settings page directly, without requiring the user to click on a
> >> plugin.  Eg- I want to be able to go directly to
> >> http://orion.eclipse.org/settings/settings.html without needing to
> >> first go to
> >> http://orion.eclipse.org/settings/settings.html#,category=plugins,installPlugin=http://mamacdon.github.com/0.3/plugins/bugzilla/plugin.html
> >>
> >> That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
> >> --a
> >>
> >> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Simon Kaegi
> >> <Simon_Kaegi@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Hi all,
> >> >
> >> > I'd like to hold a call next Tuesday at 12pm Eastern time (e.g.
> >> > same time of
> >> > day as our regular Thursday call) to discuss user experience as
> >> > well as
> >> > ideas around theming. For an initial meeting Susan suggested
> >> > bringing "a
> >> > list of the 10 things that bug you the most as a user" and I
> >> > think
> >> > that's
> >> > fine for a first call. Please feel free to ping additional ideas
> >> > on
> >> > the
> >> > list. User experience is incredibly important and depending on
> >> > the
> >> > need this
> >> > call might be made a regular bi-weekly chance to discuss.
> >> >
> >> > I unfortunately do not have an Eclipse bridge number at the
> >> > moment
> >> > but am
> >> > getting help from the Foundation to set things up. I will send
> >> > an
> >> > update
> >> > either before the call or failing that we can use my personal
> >> > bridge.
> >> >
> >> > -Simon
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > orion-dev mailing list
> >> > orion-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/orion-dev
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> orion-dev mailing list
> >> orion-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/orion-dev
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > orion-dev mailing list
> > orion-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/orion-dev
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