Re: [orion-dev] orion and debugging story?

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Re: [orion-dev] orion and debugging story?

From: Susan Franklin McCourt <susan_franklin@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 16:17:59 -0800
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I use both Chrome and FF debug a lot, and I have to say I've never wanted to use live js editing in either.

I use live CSS editing all the time, but it is usually throw away ideas. I can do lots of experimenting and figure out what's going on with my layout, etc., the effects of various style values. I rarely would want to save the changes, it's more that I'm trying to figure out why something isn't right and it takes a lot of trial and error. At some point I arrive at something I like and then I go change the CSS "for real" back in my editor.

I find that I think/work differently when debugging js. I'm not trying to hack in different ideas to see what might fix the problem. Usually I spot exactly what's wrong, so I want to make the "real" change. Since I've been working in the Orion editor, I want to go there and make the change, with all the tooling I'm used to....outliner, jslint, content assist, etc. Also if I could link back to the code in Orion, I could debug in Chrome, FF, etc. and I'm not stomping changes.

For me live editing is where temporary hacks happen but I don't want to use that environment when I have a different editing toolset that I'm already quite comfortable with.

susan

sad geek ---03/05/2012 02:26:45 PM---Are you aware that in the Chrome debugger you can do exactly that - double click to live-edit, then

From: sad geek <geek@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Orion developer discussions <orion-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 03/05/2012 02:26 PM
Subject: Re: [orion-dev] orion and debugging story?
Sent by: orion-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

Are you aware that in the Chrome debugger you can do exactly that - double click to live-edit, then save and continue debugging your edited code without reloading the page. There is even an extension that can auto save your 'live edits' back to the file system. Perhaps this can be made to work nicely with orion ?

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 7:45 PM, Susan Franklin McCourt <susan_franklin@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Setting the breakpoint is important, but I find the reverse to be very useful, too. I'm often stepping in the debugger and I realize what's wrong. I want to get back to the Orion editor at the line that I'm on in the debugger. Even some low tech extensions that surface a link back to Orion would be cool. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to fix the code in the debugger, started to type, and then...oh yeah,...go back to the tab with the code.

Simon Kaegi ---03/05/2012 10:21:24 AM---Hi John, Yes that's correct at least for the time being.

From:

Simon Kaegi <

Simon_Kaegi@xxxxxxxxxx

To: Orion developer discussions <orion-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 03/05/2012 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [orion-dev] orion and debugging story?
Sent by: orion-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

Hi John,

Yes that's correct at least for the time being.
We want to be able to show some integration with the debugger and being able to set/remove breakpoints from our editor page was a capability that committers wanted and would use immediately if they could. There are probably other simple things we might try to do for 1.0 especially if they're straightforward and immediately helpful to the team, but for the moment we're only looking at augmenting and working with the existing browser debug UI.

Longer term I fully expect us to have a debug UI as we want to provide tooling for a wide range of languages however even then I suspect we will "also" continue to try to find ways to augment and work with the built in browser debug tools.

-Simon

John J Barton ---03/05/2012 12:46:04 PM---On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Ken Walker <

Ken_Walker@xxxxxxxxxx

> wrote: > I think that in the 1.0

From:	John J Barton <johnjbarton@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To:	Orion developer discussions <orion-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:	03/05/2012 12:46 PM
Subject:	Re: [orion-dev] orion and debugging story?
Sent by:	orion-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Ken Walker <

Ken_Walker@xxxxxxxxxx

> wrote:

I think that in the 1.0 timeline a focus should be integrating with existing debug tools vs. attempting to replace them. With what we might be able to get through the console implementation it should be feasible to at least set/remove breakpoints in the Orion editor provided you're not debugging a minified version of the file. To me this is a minimum that we need to support.

Do you mean: the breakpoint set/remove would be available in the Orion UI, but driving the app, showing the state of the machine, stepping, continuing etc would all be done through the another UI?

jjb

Longer term, for languages we cannot leverage a debugger for in the browser we should be looking to implement both a compelling UI and framework for talking to systems under debug. This is not what I would consider a 1.0 item however.

/Ken

Andy Clement ---03/01/2012 05:08:37 PM---Hi, Someone briefly touched on debugging this morning on the call and I've

From:	Andy Clement <andrew.clement@xxxxxxxxx>
To:	Orion developer discussions <orion-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:	03/01/2012 05:08 PM
Subject:	[orion-dev] orion and debugging story?
Sent by:	orion-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

Hi, Someone briefly touched on debugging this morning on the call and I've been having a little exchange with Grant about it as I've been trying to get the existing debug stuff going (still not having much luck), but I thought I'd try and get some info through the mailing list if anyone has time to spell things out... I'm basically trying to understand the longer term goals of debug with Orion. I've had a dig around, couldn't find much in the docs but found a little in some old bugzillas and a line or two in the plans. Is there anything else I could look at? (I might just be bad at using google) I know it is quite early days for some of this stuff but what is the experience likely to be when 'finished' (or, say, in the 1.0 timeframe): - is Orion ever planned to have a debug 'page' that looks like the eclipse debugger/chrome dev tools? (stack view, variables view, editor with 'hotswap', etc) or is the plan something less/different than that? many thanks for any info, Andy _______________________________________________ orion-dev mailing list