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[higgins-dev] Notes for Higgins Developers Call On Thursday, December 11th
Logistics
  • Time: noon EST
  • Dial-in: 1-866-362-7064 / 892048#

Attendees
 
  • Brian Carroll  - Serena  
  • Andy  Hodgkinson - Novell  
  • Valery  Kokhan - Parity  Ukraine  
  • Drummond  Reed -  Cordance  
  • Mary  Ruddy  - Meristic/SocialPhysics  
  • Markus  Sabadello -  Parity  
  • Jim  Sermersheim - Novell  
  • George  Stanchev - Serena  
  • Paul  Trevithick -  Parity/SocialPhysics  
  • Brian  Walker -  Parity  
  • Jeesmon  Jacob  -  Parity   
  • Mohamad Raji  Gani - Oracle

Agenda
1. [Brian] Now working on Milestone 1.1M5
  • See  http://wiki.eclipse.org/Higgins_1.1M5  for updated  list  
  • Milestone planning, XML project  plan  
  • [BrianW] M5 is the next milestone.  Currently targeted for 9th January. We have a target list of items for that  build that stands at 91.  Some of  the main focal areas are: IdAS registry issue that is a hang over and support  for the V1.5 PPID.  That code is  done and submitted for review. With respect to the WS-Trust and  SOAP 1.3 work, we are trying to figure out  what needs to be done to get that completed. I don’t believe we will have that  done for M5 unless we get appropriate input.

2. [Paul] Java 1.4 AND Java 5
  • How to operationalize allowing selected  components to use Java 5  
  • Indicating Java version at Component  level. DONE: see [1]  
  • Making “core” vs. “non-core” distinction  on every component.
  • [Paul] One thing that came up was making a distinction between core and non-core at a component level. We could add that  to the component table template.  We can talk about that under the next item.  I’m interested in input from others.  Does Jim or anyone have any additional suggestions we should make?  
  • [Jim] Haven’t given it much thought.  Valery brought up potential problem  area.  In terms of how we explain  to people what version of java is needed I don’t have any good  suggestions.  We don’t say  anything now do we?    
  • [Paul] No. Though I’ve done a little on  that. There are convention pages buried deep in our wiki.  Good point.  I will make a note of  that.  
  • [Jim] There are a couple of issues. 1)  Building a dual version environment on the build system.  2) The issue of decision of  what we will allow to go forward to 5, then 3) Communicating minimum  requirements to consumers. That  could be both on the components page and for downloads. There could be some version of  a component that for 1.0 was 1.4 and for 1.1 that was 1.5, then  would have to break that out so could denote that on a per release  basis.  
  • [Paul] Yes. I will definitely give this  some thought on the aspect of documenting this.  Any other thoughts?  
  • [Valery] … [hard to understand]   
  • [Paul] Is the problem with the build  system?  
  • [Valerie] No, can adjust build system to  use Java 1.4 for some components and 1.5 for another.  If we are going to support Java 5 at  all, it would be  better to move  to 1.5.  
  • [Paul] Moving off 1.4 was a real problem for IBM and perhaps others
  • [Paul] The one I’m thinking about is the  new web service binding.  If this  could be separately built, then leaving IdAS at 1.4 could be ok. Obviously a  judgment call.  Do you see a  problem with that?  
  • [Valery] Don’t see problem. We can do  that.  
  • [Paul] How does the build process  know?  Is it declared or  discovered? I’m volunteering to work on the documentation part of it.  Deciding what components we will allow [to use 1.5], I think we should take it on a case by case basis. It is easier  to discuss a specific example. I think there are already some projects that  require Java 5 that Markus has been working on.  I think one of them is in the nursery  because of that.  
  • [Markus] That is right. It is the XDI  library, and that is why it is in the nursery.  The others should require  1.4.  
  • [Paul] I will take a look at  that.

3. [Paul] Clean-up of Components page
  • http://wiki.eclipse.org/Components   
  • Definition  of  Component
  • [Paul] I’ve spent a lot of time doing what  appears to be a minor change to the components page. But I have put the energy  in.  I’ve documented a list of  items on the wiki.  If you scroll  trough the wiki, you will see that there are a lot more tables and smaller  tables. I have instituted the change. Component owners should review and  correct their pages.  
  • [Paul] Component is an abstract concept.   Sometimes a component has  multiple implementations, whereas at other times, for a simple component, it just has one  project file.  In yet other cases components include multiple constituent projects.  So the tables now reflect that.  Projects now use full  file names. Also forced name of  the project and the name of the actual project folder to be identical.  You will see the word “(shared)” in  parentheses if a project is used by more than one Component. This is often an indication that the components are not perfectly factored.  
  • [Paul] We now have the ability to divide the table into sections using grey middle “section” rows. This gives the opportunity to be descriptive. Having this extra context in the components page is helpful. Reduced burden on what  needs to be written in the project wiki pages.  We now distinguish between  component wiki pages and project wiki pages. When a section (set of projects) requires Java 5.0, we could note this in the grey  sections.
  • [Paul] I have added a section for planned components. One example is called  selector UI. Its wiki page is shown in red because it is new and we haven’t even written the wiki  page.  
  • [Paul] I’m really excited about these formatting improvements. I think we gained a lot of clarity and reduced burden and  confusion. It gave me a lot of opportunity to clarify. What we lost, if we  lost anything, is there is no longer any component that is a combination of  components.  Would like to make  the solution pages have architecture diagram “component set” (last week called “packages”), but there we some problems with that. Ultimately if drill down on boxes in the architecture diagram you will arrive at a component.
  • [Paul] I working on this I also found there are some missing  components.  Don’t know who at  Novell wrote that audit component. Need to ask.  
  • [Drummond] What is the problem with the term package?  
  • [Paul] Hank said it sounded like a  deployable thing.  
  • [Paul] Component set is two words (not good);  maybe we can come up with a better word.  
  • [Paul] So far we use one component page for for both Higgins releases 1.0 and 1.1.  The “first” and “latest” columns are an  attempt for someone to see that a component is in 1.0 and 1.1 or just 1.1. But  between incorrect data, and branch numbers, (it is hard to understand branch  numbers) this isn’t easy to see at a glance. We want to make it easier at a glance to see some are wrong.
  • [Paul] Some projects and components are being carried along and built for Higgins 1.1 when in fact they are only part of Higgins 1.0. For example, we decided that the embedded Higgins browser extension for Firefox is not  supported for 1.1 (just 1.0) but is being carried along in the build system and we build it  every night. I’m going to get after  people to update these columns, then make it much more visually inspectable.  
  • [Paul] Any questions, comments, reactions?
  • <silence>

4. [Mary] Website home page progress update
  • http://www.eclipse.org/higgins/nursery  – need final feedback  
  • New pictures have been updated based on  last week's feedback and the background text is one shade darker (really)   
  • Now working on  text/links  
  • [Paul] I think they look  great.  
  • [Mary] If there are no other comments,  than we will pay the illustrator for the new pictures, and it will cost more  money if we decide to change them again.  
  • [] Silence  
  • [Mary] We’ve also spent a lot of time  working on the links and text, but they are not yet ready for review. Will let  you know when they are ready.

5. [Brian] STS PPID algorithm update
  • Sergey has  requested that Mike  review the patch and commit it if he has no objections  
  • [BrianW] Haven’t heard any feedback yet.  Are doing testing. Would welcome any other committer looking at the code. No  specific feedback yet.

6. [Paul, Jeesmon, Andy] Selector Architecture Harmonization
  • Initial steps, see [2]  
  • [Paul] Next topic is first steps on the  selector harmonization. I found that the process dotted lines messed the  picture up. Red means is a local  connection, but in a different process. If there is a choice, if the  GTK selector UI is not in a different process  from the selector client…  
  • [Jim] I’m fake Andy for a  moment.  
  • [Paul] I put a blue line and an  orange.  That small amount of  clutter is less annoying than all the dotted process boxes. When I drew the picture, I found a  number of mistakes.  Like the  i-card cache was shown as separate.  
  • [Paul] What I proposed is that we align  with the above diagram. I’d like to clean-up the HBX component. We need to  refactor our code. The HBX component has multiple different implementations in  different languages on different browsers. Jeesmon’s and the other pieces need  to be split up. That is the first step, unless objections.  
  • [Paul] Also in this picture, the Selector  Selector launches the selector UI directly, as opposed to the code we have now  for Windows where there is an intermediate component, which is not shown in  the diagram because we think it should be one [piece] for performance and  simplicity.  We should be less  modular here.  
  • [Paul] One thing Jim, you should note for  Andy we are working on a Selector Selector.  Haven’t done the port for Linux. It  shouldn’t be too hard.  There  needs to be an HSS on Linux.  
  • [Paul]Number 4 under first step, HBX  launches the Selector Selector which launches DigitalMe. Andy might have a lot  of thoughts on that topic. There is also interest outside the main  Higgins project in convergence. One step for that  is for Bandit and AIR to use the same card  store.  
  • [Jim] I will see if he has any objections  to that.  
  • [Paul] Currently the whole GTK/Cocoa [DigitalMe] thing  exists in one project. Long term it should be broken-up into components and  multiple implementations of the component. If we split DigitalMe in a place  where it is already split and make it into two separate projects… There is  this issue: in order to have 1.0 still refer to these components need to keep  it for 1.0.  So keep it and copy  it into a new project like higgins.selector.ui.gtk or something.  We haven’t copied projects.  We’ve kept them the same for 1.0 and  1.1. But in this situation, in the new discipline that a component is a  service description…  
  • [Paul] Phase 2 is the baby step we can  take to have a remote card store. Step 1, need to define a remote card store
  • [Jim] What are the kinds of actions that  need to happen between the client and remote card store service? Enumerating  and fetching things?  
  • [Paul] My bias would be to not use  SOAP. Get operations, looking at time stamps,  enumerating what it has, probably needs to be client driven. Do some polling,  synchronizing. Also need some put operation if someone makes one locally. What  I like about this is, other than authentication stuff that might be hairy, we  are dealing with blobs that have time stamps on them. I’m thinking that an operation would synchronize all  cards.  
  • [Jim] I’m always wanting to make things  with my IdAS hammer. What I’m wondering, if we had an IdAS service  running, using REST and decided cashing is important  too…  
  • [Paul] I thought of the same thing.  It is a very good option. I’m open to that.  
  • [Jim] If the remote thing turned out to  have a lot of the same work that needed to be done: authentication,  enumeration, possible search, do comparison, if it turned out a lot of the  actions were similar, it might make sense to do that at the same time.  If Microsoft already had a protocol already, then it makes a lot of sense to piggyback with what they are doing.  
  • [Paul] Ok, I will see what Mike Jones of Microsoft says about this.
  • [Paul] IdAS is the way we would like to do  it.  
  • [Drummond] Implementing in an IdAS model  is an obvious path for us to take for a lot of reasons.  
  • [Paul] Today we use a hybrid model where  cards are not stored in IdAS. They are stored in i-card providers, If we would  implement that, would probably want to switch that.  If we decided to use IdAS, do you think you might have some time to work on that?  
  • [Jim] Right now I’m in the process of  building out [business] cases to justify that.  I’m very hopeful.  

7. [Mary] Higgins presentation selected for EclipseCON 2009.
  • [Mary] Higgins has been selected for a 1 hours speaking  slot for EclipseCON. We are doing a joint presentation with another group of  people that has been working with Higgins. The presentation will include an  overview of Higgins and an example of how to info-card enable  an RCP application. We may need input help from some of the  Higgins development group as part of the  preparations.
  • [Jim] On the components page, there is  still the dependency column.  So  what are your thoughts on that?  
  • [Paul] Maybe after I get this cleaned–up,  we can split up the dependencies. I was going to do that if I could get a  volunteer to pick up after I left off. I will talk to Brian on that. I think  it would be great to get us off one dependencies project.   
  • [Jim] Whenever we come to have a separate  project for each dependency, there may be a way to auto-generate the  dependency list. But once we do that, not sure how important that is, can then  delete the column. Then the dependencies would be project based, not component  based. My instinct is to work on it and delete this column. Not sure what else  need to be done to consume from Orbit. If there is already an Orbit project,  maybe can consume straight from Orbit.  
  • [Paul] I will look into  that.  
  • [Jim] One that has links to a wiki  page... There is a wiki for the IdAS  API.   So I must need to remake my wiki page.  
  • [Paul] Whatever doc we have at the project  level now is bonus points.  Just  standardize on components having doc, not the projects. I’ve cleaned up the  conventions pages.
  • [Paul] We are out of time.  See everyone next  week.  

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