| [higgins-dev] Notes from June 26 Higgins developers call |
Notes from the Higgins Developers call on Thursday, June 26
Attendees
=========
Paula Austel -
* Jeff Broberg
CA
* Duane Buss -
Novell
Anthony Bussani -
* Greg Byrd -
NCSU/
* Brian Carrol -
Serena
*Tom Doman -
Novell
Andy Hodgkinson - Novell
David Kuehr-Mclaren -
Mike McIntosh -
* Tony Nadalin -
Ernst Plassmann -
Uppili Srinivasan -
Oracle
* Bruce Rich -
*
* Markus Sabedello -
Parity
* Jim Sermersheim -
Novell
* George Stanchev -
Serena
Daniel
Sanders
* Paul Trevithick -
Parity/SocialPhysics
*
* Carl Binding -
* Tom Caroll -
Parity
Ernst
Plassmann -
Mohamad -
Oracle
*Hank
Malden
* Attendees
Meeting
Notes
Agenda
======
1) [Brian] 1.1M2 (20 June
Completed)
------------------------------------
* See: http://wiki.eclipse.org/Higgins_1.1M2
* Next milestone is
1.1M3
{Mary}] Brian would you
kickoff the first item?
[Brian] Milestone 2 was
completed last Friday. We updated the list. There are a couple of wiki
things that we are still cleaning up. Effectively M2 is completed. Did note
from Bjorn that we need to refer to these as milestone builds, not releases. The
next milestone is M3. Right now it is targeted for the 25th of July. Some
of the things that were not in M2 were moved to M3. So I will continue to
iterate on that [M3 list] So please review your items on the M3 list and
update them or push them off to a more appropriate milestone. So please continue
to iterate on M3 items.
2) [Brian] Nightly
Auto-Test
----------------------------
* Continued coordination
with Buckminster project.
[Brian] There are
essentially 2 threads we are pursuing at the moment. One is Buckminster.
Next steps are one thread with Thomas - to talk about how we are currently doing
builds in Higgins and compare notes to see if there are some collaboration
activities going forward to see if we can leverage their integrated auto
test. Thomas suggested a couple of other
3) [Brian & David]
internationalization
---------------------------------------
* Next
steps?
* http://wiki.eclipse.org/Internationalization_Support
[Brian] The next topic is
internationalization
[Mary] David is not on the
call.
[Brian] We made some
updates from last week's discussion. David has a specific project (IdAS)
that he needs to drive. So we will use it as the trial balloon. Want to
get review inputs from other component owners so that they can go back and
assess their components to the standard. Then assess component by component work
that is needed to meet that [composite] standard. I need to coordinate
with David and get more people to review the proposed internationalization
standard and comment on that. We can work o this using on email or schedule a
separate call if needed. If folks have a passion to comment, they can do
so now.
[Silence]
4) [Mary] Home page design
update
---------------------------------
* http://www.eclipse.org/higgins
* Live with new
look
* Skinning the wiki has
been delayed by Ganymede release
* We added identity
framework "Tip of the Iceberg" section
* Discussion of home page
content
[Mary] Over the last few months we
have been working on a new website for Higgins that would allow the project to
have its own integrity. (I.e. to standout as a separate project from the Eclipse
IDE) Weve been working on a new look and feel that is compatible with the
Eclipse logo, but is much lighter and more open (less purple.) We have also been
working to make Higgins easier to understand. Weve received a lot of feedback that
the previous descriptions were too abstract. So the home page now leads with a
concrete example of the information card UI. Weve added the identity framework tip
of the Iceberg section to the bottom, to then talk about the richness of the
underlying identity framework. We
also are working on skinning the wiki so that it looks like the new website, but
this work has been delayed by the Ganymede release.
[Jeff] I have a blog
coming out that information cards are just the tip of the iceberg. Over the
last year I've been using Infocards as a metaphor. That works really
great. It is a nice visual metaphor. Then sometimes they mistake that that
is all it is. All the other wonderful things that we bringing to the table are
missed, like making an apple into an orange
federation and managing
websites. I've been doing a lot of evangelization in CA that it is more
than just Infocards. Maybe this is my one fault that I wasnt paying enough
attention.
[Mary] Does the
symbol of the iceberg - with the appropriate polish work for
you?
[Jim] Yes, what is most
important about Higgins is the identity layer, the underlying
infrastructure.
[Hank] I will take it one
step further. That the top tag should say open source identity framework,
then it is fine to talk about Infocards underneath.
[Paul] I was thinking
a similar thing. That we could get away with that. Then if you go to the
other pages, the naïve users will get some sense of the overall scope of the
project.
[Paul] Now that we have
something on the home page that is fundamentally acceptable [digestible by a
naïve user], we could get away with using the tag Open Source Identity
Framework.
[Hank] We want to emphasize
the bigger picture. I love the cards and the mouse. Want to continue
to emphasize the big picture.
[Paul] I think it could
work.
[Mary] So the reason that
we had moved away from leading with the framework is that we had received a lot
of feedback that that was too abstract. People didnt know what Higgins
was. We have been experimenting
with leading with a concrete example of a UI, the card metaphor that people can
relate to, then talking about what Higgins can do underneath. We tried this out at the Internet
Identity Workshop and the feedback was very positive. What Im hearing people say is that now
that we do have a specific example on the home page, we can go back and lead
with a more generic tag line.
[Hank] Yes, not have
information cards [as the header} on every page. It [the home page] flows, and
tip of the iceberg helps. Need to bring people in slowly. I often lead with the
card and then talk about the framework.
{Mary] Can we take a straw
poll? Anyone
disagree?
[Tony] What is the specific
proposal?
[Paul] The proposal is to
change the tag [at the top of every web page] to be Open Source Identity
Framework. So we arent pigeon holing the whole project, but that we lead with
something concrete {the cute mouse} to get peoples
attention.
[Mary] The revised tag
would be on every page
[Tony] We shouldnt be
leading with Information Cards. We
need to remove this quickly.
[Paul] Does anyone
disagree?
Silence.
[Paul] The tip of the
iceberg is a place holder. We will add more detail to it.
[Mary] We will look into
adding a picture in this section.
[Paul]
Cool
[Greg]
.. Long term, we
could make that stuff as acceptable as the information card
support.
[Paul] We could link to a
picture of the framework diagram if folks are interested and want to read
more.
[Paul] We have found that
that the home page was the place where we needed to make changes. We only made minor changes to the other
pages and cleaned up the look and feel.
[Mary] We will keep working
on the home page
[Jeff] That is a good idea.
I like the metaphor of the tip of the iceberg and potentially bringing in more
stuff [detail]. That is great, I would be happy with that.
[BrianC] I also agree with
that.
[Tony] I'm against leading
off with Infocard. That is not what we are about. That is a minor part of
Higgins.
[Paul] It is the most
accessible part. We werent only talking about information cards, we just lead
off with it.
[Tony]That is what I object
to
(More
conversation.)
[Mary] We did originally lead off with
the framework, but it didnt work. We got a lot of feedback that the message
wasnt clear, so we experimented and tried something
different.
[Tony] That is fine, but
related back to Microsoft. The user interface may go away. People are interested
in interoperation among identity management systems.
[Paul] The Infocard concept
was brought out by Microsoft, but it is not longer just
Microsoft.
[Paul] Im here at the
Burton Group Catalyst conference.
As far as the Burton Group is concerned Bob [Blakley] says it is definite
that the technology is not Microsoft.
So far as the Burton Group is concerned, it is not about Microsoft. [This was said in a conference
session.].
[Paul] It is now a generic
term
[Tony] That is the minority
of the people.
[Paul] I think this will
change over time. We will see.
[Paul] So changing the tag
line will clear this up. We are acutely trying to address the biggest
problem that we had. I.e. that the
abstractness of it made it difficult to understand for the majority of the
people. We will keep iterating on this, two steps forward, one step
back.
[Hank] Another thing we
might want to do. Maybe add a few sentences before the Infocards part, to
give a little more impression of the whole thing.
[Paul] We could try
that.
[Hank] I'm trying to keep
this to minimal changes. I do like the example of the tip of the iceberg, and
adding more to that section. Maybe not quite a menu, but that points to
the detail below. Maybe a sentence or two...
[Paul] Lets try that and
do it for next week. We can talk about it again.
[Hank] I do like this. The fonts and colors are fine. It is very pleasing.
Kudos.
[Mary] Thank you. Many thank to all the folks who are
working on this and providing feedback.
[Mary] We will work on this
[the new tag line and intro paragraph].
[Tony] I dont know what it
will look like.
[Mary] We will work on this
on the list.
5)
[
[Mary] Is there anyone from
[Tony] Don't know what Tom
is interested in hearing about.
[Tom] That was very
abstract. I just started looking at that. It looks like a way to quickly create
restful apps. Seemed like a potential participation point for Higgins to come
in. If that is not the case, than that is OK.
[Tony] It was brought up in
the context of multi-protocol RP support. Going to multi-protocol RP support is
unlikely to include Infocards due to restfulness. Some stuff done in zero
(multi-protocol support] will make its way back into
Higgins.
[Tom] I was thinking it
would enable WebSphere to create restful apps using IdAS. We are working on a
restful IdAS server at Novel. Looked like a complementary item. I dont
know if that is the type of thing
[Tom] What is built in
project zero today is the
[Tony] That is all part of
the multi-protocol support that has been put back into
Higgins.
[Tom] That maybe all that I
needed. Thank you.
[Mary] [In conclusion] I
will start by making the change [to the banner] at the top of the web
pages.
[Tony] Im just worried
about how long this will take
[Mary] The tag line is part
of the logo design, so I need to go back to the designer to get this changed. We
will make the changes as soon as possible.
[Paul] We will move as fast
as we can, and keep soliciting feedback. The only way to do this is to
iterate.
[Paul] Anything else?
Silence
[Paul] Great. See you next
week.
End -