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Build Identifier: In a recent blog entry, John Gruber commented on the strange use of floppy disk icons for Save actions considering computers no longer ship with floppy drives - some not for a decade. Eclipse should consider to stop using floppy disk icons for Save actions. Reproducible: Always
Yes, floppy disks are no longer used anymore. But that icon has become the metaphor for Save operation. Almost Most of us immediately recognize it as Save operation. What is the better alternative?
One option would be just not to use the icon in the menu item. This is what Mac OS X applications like Pages, Safari, Mac Firefox, etc. do. I'm not sure what the replacement would be for the toolbar icon. Just wondering out loud: I wonder if the floppy disk icon has any meaning to younger programmers? (e.g. someone in their early 20s just getting out of college)
(In reply to comment #2) > I'm not sure what the replacement would be for the toolbar icon. Word seems to use a floppy as its icon. GTK+'s icons are based on a floppy also. > Just wondering out loud: I wonder if the floppy disk icon has any meaning to > younger programmers? (e.g. someone in their early 20s just getting out of > college) I'm 23 and it's synonymous to "save" for me. It also reminds me of the good old days when I played DOS games from a floppy. But that's not the topic at hand here. :)
(In reply to comment #2) > One option would be just not to use the icon in the menu item. This is what Mac > OS X applications like Pages, Safari, Mac Firefox, etc. do. > > I'm not sure what the replacement would be for the toolbar icon. Whatever icon it is, we should be having an icon in both places. Not just in the toolbar.
Created attachment 163456 [details] Icons from Ubuntu 9.10 (GPL?) Floppy is a synonym of save also for me. But I have found quite interesting replacement possibility - check the attachment.
Jesus saves you: http://kiddmillennium.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/jesus-thumps-up1.jpg
(In reply to comment #0) > Build Identifier: > > In a recent blog entry, John Gruber commented on the strange use of floppy disk > icons for Save actions considering computers no longer ship with floppy drives > - some not for a decade. by that logic, we should have a CD/DVD icon then? > > Eclipse should consider to stop using floppy disk icons for Save actions. We are conditioned, to think that the Floppy icon is analogous to Save. The rest of the World should also change the icon, failing which, the eclipse save button icon wil stick out like a sore thumb, possibly also the butt of many jokes. > > Reproducible: Always
While people are free to continue discussing the pros/cons of the floppy icon :-) let me set some expectations. We won't be changing the icon in 3.x (1). We might consider changing the icon in 4.0 (2). #1. that floppy icon is the standard for save, and has been for years. It is known and understood. If a new symbol (cross-platform) became the standard for save, then we would consider keeping up with that. But I haven't seen large groups of graphic designers and application developers getting together to discuss save :-) Icons are about information, and the current icon screams "save". To swap the icon has a downstream cost in documentation, and we'd have to be pretty sure it was correct before we committed to pay it. #2. one of things that has been requested in e4/eclipse 4.0 is the notion of icon sets. Then if someone wanted to swap in their own icon set with their own save, they are welcome to. We haven't made much progress on the icon set concept AFAIK because no one has expressed the desire to implement it yet ... but it's still of interest. In eclipse 4.0 itself we will use the 3.x icon set, unless there's a push to do an entire icon set refresh. But there hasn't been a push for that, either. There's always some flexibility in the above if enough consumers were interested (think hundreds) or if some people suddenly had *a lot* of free time. PW
Note that Win7 apps (such as Paint) that are using newer concepts like the shell trim icons and using ribbons still use the floppy for "Save" and "Save As". I really don't see us changing the icon before the rest of the world does. I agree with Paul that "changeable icon sets" (perhaps exposing our icons via CSS in future e4 releases) is the way to go for those who just can't bear to look at that floppy disk.
Although the floppy is still the standard, we could think of an icon showing a hard drive with an incoming arrow or a pencil. This would be self-expressing as "store on disk" or "write on disk".
I just noticed the icon from Ubuntu submitted by Kryzstof (which is a HD with incoming arrow), and I now understand where does my suggestion comes from: it's not my idea, it's my OS one ;) Don't OS provide a System icon (that SWT could directly consume) for the save action?
(In reply to Remy Suen from comment #3) > (In reply to comment #2) > Word seems to use a floppy as its icon. GTK+'s icons are based on a floppy > also. Gnome does not use a floppy as an icon. It uses a file cabinet. I added an attachment as an example. My kids realy don't understand the icon (12 and 9 years old). They learned that it means save but when I ask them what it is they realy have no clue. For them it's more like this: http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/aD08DrZ_700b_v1.jpg On the other hand this bug made me thinking, why do we need a save action anyway. Isn't time for Eclipse to support autosave?
Created attachment 239543 [details] Gnome save icon
I find the SD-Card design a really great idea [1]. It is visually a small step from the floppydisk design to the SDCard.I hoped it was in M5 but apparently it is not. http://blog.vogella.com/2014/01/17/eclipse-org-eclipse-ui-switches-to-png-files-and-waves-good-bye-to-the-floppy-disk/
Note that some editors can bind actions such as pushing to the cloud on save. So using a too concrete item (like a floppy or a hard drive) can be against this. A possible more abstract icon could be to use the typical storage/DB cylinder and an arrow moving up into it.
