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Copied from bug 291335 part that directly relates to ATF: Okay, finally I find the ATF page but only because I already know it exists and am specifically looking for it. So I arrive at that page and all I really see is a link to download it. Again the assumption here is that I already know what it is and how to use it and how to install it and all I want is the file.... Not a good assumption considering that it is not true for the majority of people seeing this page. Off to the left I see some links that may tell me something useful about the project and how to use it. But the priorities are backwards. You ought to make the introduction for new users prominent and put the download links to the left. Experienced users can then go to the main page and they know immediately to click the download link and ignore the rest. But for new users they should be greeted with prominently featured information telling them about the project and what it is useful for and why they would want it and then especially give them an idea of how to use it. Looking at the main page of ATF I have no idea which of the many versions presented that I should download, or even why I would want to install it. I see nothing that tells me what it does. Even looking closer at the link on the left I again see that the majority of them are aimed at developers of the ATF code, not end users wanting to install and use it. ....... okay, I see that there are several ways to get there and I see different things depending on how I do it. If I go to the downloads page and then projects and then ATF http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/ http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/?tab=project http://www.eclipse.org/atf/downloads/index.php I get the page which I described above. I suppose it *seems* logical to assume that anyone coming from the downloads page is already going to know what it is and simply want to download it. But I beg to differ. Anyone coming from the downloads page is likely to have stumbled across it for the very first time and be looking for more information about it. On the other hand, anyone who is actively using it, will have already bookmarked the ATF download page and go directly to it. The wiki is the 6th link down on the left, after a bunch of links which are only of interest to eclipse developers... the wiki really ought to be the landing page. -------------------- But then if I get there another way I see something a little bit better, but not before encountering a page not found error.... starting at http://www.eclipse.org/ click the projects link on the top bar http://www.eclipse.org/projects/ click the show me all projects -- ignore the fact that it tells me once again that this page is really only of interest to eclipse developers... and insist anyway on seeing the list of projects. http://www.eclipse.org/projects/listofprojects.php http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project_summary.php?projectid=tools.atf which gives a better introduction to ATF scroll down to Project Web Site and click the link, "this website" http://www.eclipse.org/projects/www.eclipse.org/atf Error 404 Page not found ------------------------ but following the "ATF" link at the top of the page takes me to a much better landing page. http://www.eclipse.org/atf/ now this page is MUCH better as a landing page than the previous pages I encountered. and after some time of wandering around the eclipse website I see that there is some method to the organizational madness.... But I still say that the assumptions are wrong. what I suggest that you do is that at the top of your ATF *downloads* landing page you put a very prominent link <h1> that says Information for New Users. and then you take them to either the wiki or the atf landing page. I also urge you and the other eclipse developers to try to forget everything you know about eclipse. try really hard to put yourself into the shoes of an end user coming to the site for the first time and being overwhelmed by it, and try to appreciate just how hard it is to comprehend and navigate the site and how hard it is to figure out the who what where and why of installing and using eclipse with it's 60+ different projects.
