| Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in EAVP |
Werner
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: IDataSet in EAVP (Wayne Beaton)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 13:38:00 -0400
From: Wayne Beaton <wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: science-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx, "emo-ip-team@xxxxxxxxxxx"
<emo-ip-team@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in EAVP
Message-ID: <55E733F8.7090806@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
Yes. You can do a release that includes only some parts. The IP Team
needs to have approved all IP included in those pieces that are
released. This includes any third-party libraries that are used by those
bits of code.
(I probably should have made that more clear in my earlier response)
Wayne
On 02/09/15 01:18 PM, Jay Jay Billings wrote:
>
> Thanks Wayne!
>
> If I read this correctly, we need to do a formal release of the parts
> we are planning to use, but not the whole project?
>
> Jay
>
> On Sep 2, 2015 11:27 AM, "Wayne Beaton" <wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>
> A mature project can use released bits (i.e. code and binaries
> produced for a formal release) from a project in the incubation phase.
>
> Naturally, all of the used code must have check-in approval from
> the IP Team (i.e. is subject to the IP Due Diligence Process).
>
> Any downloads that include incubating code must be labeled as such
> (e.g. "contains incubating components").
>
> HTH,
>
> Wayne
>
> On 01/09/15 12:43 PM, Jay Jay Billings wrote:
>> Matt,
>>
>> Let's ask the Foundation. I have CC'ed the IP team on this response.
>>
>> Dear EMO IP Team,
>>
>> Could you please help us determine what, if any, are the IP
>> issues associated with an Eclipse project using code from an
>> incubating project? As the email discussion below details, we
>> would like to use the IDataSet plugins from DAWNSci, which is
>> incubating, in the Eclipse Advanced Visualization Project once it
>> is up and running. As I understand it, this type of scenario
>> requires special care from an IP perspective since incubating
>> projects may face several issues on that front.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 12:10 PM, <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>> Jay,
>>
>> What are the IP issues? How do official releases vs. other
>> kinds of releases help? J
>>
>> Now that the two plugins are in DAWNSci* does the rest of
>> DAWNSci have to pass IP checking? That should be ok, there is
>> not much which is non-eclipse and the CQ?s are raised. If
>> EAVP was waiting for release on DAWNSci it should be possible
>> to do that with little risk.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> *(Which state of affairs I was pushed into somewhat, if you
>> remember I did say that they should be a community project.)
>>
>> *From:*science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> [mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>] *On Behalf Of *Jay
>> Jay Billings
>> *Sent:* 01 September 2015 16:44
>>
>>
>> *To:* Science Industry Working Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in EAVP
>>
>> Matt,
>>
>> The biggest concern, in my mind, with using it from DAWNSci
>> is not the license, but the IP issues. If you are planning an
>> official release of DAWNSci, then all those issues
>> (eventually) go away. However, if not, then it isn't clear
>> how we could "legally" (procedural sense) use it.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> On Sep 1, 2015 11:12 AM, <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>> Jay,
>>
>> >> the whole community, me included, really wants to be able
>> to use IDataSet with EAVP
>>
>> Perfect! What is the blocker in using it right now?
>>
>> I suggest to put it in EAVP from where it is, it is there on
>> the eclipse github and EPL licensed. Import statements can be
>> changed later and eclipse projects can depend on one another
>> after all.
>>
>> Tim suggested sciDataset, so perhaps the eventual
>> package/project could be org.eclipse.scidataset? But before
>> we do that, I would like to quantify the need from the
>> community of its location.
>>
>> Given that it is two plugins, it should be pretty easy to
>> create a project for it faster than EAVP and ensure that EAVP
>> can make its targets for releasing with the Eclipse train; if
>> that is the blocker.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> *From:*science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> [mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>] *On Behalf Of *Jay
>> Jay Billings
>> *Sent:* 01 September 2015 14:56
>> *To:* Science Industry Working Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in EAVP
>>
>> Matt,
>>
>> Will you please clarify your response and be a little more
>> definitive please? My feeling is that the the whole
>> community, me included, really wants to be able to use
>> IDataSet with EAVP. I am essentially trying to figure out if
>> this is something that we can plan and push for as part of
>> our 1.0 release in 6-12 months or if it needs to wait until a
>> 2.0 release sometime after that.
>>
>> So, are you saying that you don't know what you're going to
>> do with it yet? Or are you saying that you want to propose a
>> new "data structures" project that we could wait on?
>>
>> Even a statement of "I need more time to investigate this"
>> would be fine, just as long as you say it unequivocally,
>> because then I can put it on the potential feature set for
>> the EAVP 2.0 release next year and leave it out of 1.0.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 6:04 AM, <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Jay and other folks,
>>
>> >> Alex noted that you felt like the "moving IDataSet" option
>> would make EAVP a competitor to DAWNSci.
>>
>> To clarify, I said was that at the point where EAVP does not
>> use IDataset, it becomes a competitor to DAWNSci JThis is
>> because the numerics become less compatible but the scope is
>> the same. If the numerics are compatible it becomes a
>> collaborator with a similar scope.
>>
>> I think our vision for IDataset is not a visualization
>> specific project but something more general, just as numpy is
>> for python. IDataset is two plugins with few dependencies.
>> Suggestions about where it sits not specific to any single
>> use case (visualization, numerics, scripting, etc) are welcome.
>>
>> If we do move, we might need a name like numjy, jDataset etc.
>> for the project, again suggestions welcome! There would also
>> be some Diamond internal work for me to consider and agree,
>> likely not a blocker although I might ask external people
>> register specific interest in how they will reuse it and why
>> they want it moved.
>>
>> I also reported in the meeting that IDataset is complete but
>> can be faster for some operations. When/if speed issues
>> arise, there are a number of strategies which can be used
>> already or new code added JIt can deal with data much larger
>> than available memory, which is a powerful way at looking at
>> large data on small computers.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> *From:*science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> [mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>] *On Behalf Of *Jay
>> Jay Billings
>> *Sent:* 31 August 2015 20:41
>> *To:* Science Industry Working Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in EAVP
>>
>> Everyone,
>>
>> I should clarify that EAVP is short for "the Eclipse Advanced
>> Visualization Project" for those who haven't heard of it
>> before. It is the viz project that we have been discussing
>> for awhile.
>>
>> Jau
>>
>> On Aug 31, 2015 2:01 PM, "Jay Jay Billings"
>> <jayjaybillings@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jayjaybillings@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Matt,
>>
>> I met with Alex this morning and he told me how awesome the
>> Norway meeting was. He also told me that there is broad
>> support for using IDataSet in EAVP. I would like to discuss
>> how we can move forward on this. I strongly support the use
>> of IDataSet in EAVP and I really want to see a tight
>> integration because it is technology that would be very
>> valuable to what we are doing at ORNL and, I imagine, other
>> institutions in this group. There is a very big technical
>> question that we need to answer though: Where is IDataSet
>> going to be released?
>>
>>
>> In one of our previous steering committee calls you said that
>> DIAMOND has no intention of doing a "full Eclipse release" of
>> DAWNSci since your goal with the project was only to release
>> the source code, not binaries. That makes it very challenging
>> to use anything in DAWNSci in any other SWG project because
>> it lacks that Eclipse "technical goodness" that many of our
>> projects depend on.
>>
>> So, if you don't mind, let's start there. What are your
>> release plans for DAWNSci? If you are planning an official,
>> Eclipse.org release then I think we can use IDataSet as it is
>> and just wait on your release. However, if not or if not
>> reasonably soon, then I think you should seriously consider
>> contributing it to EAVP so that the community can use it and
>> help develop it with you.
>>
>> Alex noted that you felt like the "moving IDataSet" option
>> would make EAVP a competitor to DAWNSci. I don't personally
>> see that since no other Eclipse projects are competitors to
>> DAWNSci. I urge you not to look at the project that way
>> either. It is meant to be an open, community effort that we
>> all work on - and use - together.
>>
>> Please let me know what you think and let's keep this
>> discussion in the open so that we can get good thoughts and
>> ideas from the community. I'm certain there is a workable
>> path forward on this.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Jay Jay Billings
>>
>> Oak Ridge National Laboratory
>>
>> Twitter Handle: @jayjaybillings
>>
>> --
>>
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>> --
>>
>> Jay Jay Billings
>>
>> Oak Ridge National Laboratory
>>
>> Twitter Handle: @jayjaybillings
>>
>> --
>>
>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential,
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>> Diamond Light Source Ltd. cannot guarantee that this e-mail
>> or any attachments are free from viruses and we cannot accept
>> liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of
>> software viruses which may be transmitted in or with the message.
>> Diamond Light Source Limited (company no. 4375679).
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>> Diamond House, Harwell Science and Innovation Campus, Didcot,
>> Oxfordshire, OX11 0DE, United Kingdom
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>>
>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential,
>> copyright and or privileged material, and are for the use of
>> the intended addressee only. If you are not the intended
>> addressee or an authorised recipient of the addressee please
>> notify us of receipt by returning the e-mail and do not use,
>> copy, retain, distribute or disclose the information in or
>> attached to the e-mail.
>> Any opinions expressed within this e-mail are those of the
>> individual and not necessarily of Diamond Light Source Ltd.
>> Diamond Light Source Ltd. cannot guarantee that this e-mail
>> or any attachments are free from viruses and we cannot accept
>> liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of
>> software viruses which may be transmitted in or with the message.
>> Diamond Light Source Limited (company no. 4375679).
>> Registered in England and Wales with its registered office at
>> Diamond House, Harwell Science and Innovation Campus, Didcot,
>> Oxfordshire, OX11 0DE, United Kingdom
>>
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>>
>> --
>> Jay Jay Billings
>> Oak Ridge National Laboratory
>> Twitter Handle: @jayjaybillings
>>
>>
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>
> --
> Wayne Beaton
> @waynebeaton
> The Eclipse Foundation
> EclipseCon Europe 2015 <http://www.eclipsecon.org/europe2015>
>
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--
Wayne Beaton
@waynebeaton
The Eclipse Foundation
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