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Re: [nebula-dev] Nebula Project Review
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I agree as well. I should know, I have 3 widgets in Nebula, probably more than anyone. I didn't join before I was sure that I wouldn't have to spend time fixing bugs/making improvements except on my own time, and that time is sporadic. I have weeks where I do nothing else, and I have weeks where I do nothing (lately the case, work is just too busy). I do have a rough idea of where my widgets are going, but I can't say "next month this feature will be done", it's just not possible. They tend to be implemented due to demand or via long chat sessions over AIM/Skype where someone says "can't it do this?" and say "let me see", and I go change code to make it happen.
A problem I find with the entire project is that I never get a feel for what Eclipse wants from Nebula, or what Nebula wants from Eclipse. It feels pretty obvious the widgets will never go into SWT regardless of stability/maturity/quality, so that clause should probably get taken out if that's the case. I think the project is fine as a standalone project, but then the question comes "what does it take for the widgets to reach the next level?", and what is the next level? Is it simply getting rid of the Alpha tag that has sat on these projects since the beginning? I don't know. I also find it very hard to give users a concrete answer when they ask if they can contribute. Telling them to go file a bug and attach the code feels rather "weak", but at the same time telling them to send it to me and I'll incorporate it also feels like they don't get the credit they deserve. And at the same time, if there's a widget that's very non-active, where the lead hasn't made a sound in ages, and I have a good fix for it, what do I do? I also have a full glazed-lists framework implementation for the Grid that makes sorting, filtering, state-saving etc etc almost magic in how easy it is to use.. but that can't ever go in as it contains a third party plugin (the glazed lists), so where does it go? There's a bunch of questions like that in my head.
In any case, I would [personally] like to see the project have some sort of direction. There's some really good stuff in the Nebula project, stuff people "need" for their [serious] projects. Nebula is basically taking SWT into the area where people can really use it because there are programmers who are making important widgets that aren't covered in the Eclipse packages. I would have been rather lost right now without the formatted text widget, the grid, my calendarcombo, gantt chart, etc which I've used in numerous heavyweight customer projects, without more than small glitches here and there.
If Tom wants to take the reigns, he gets my full support. I do worry about you though Tom, you put so much on your plate! :)
Emil
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Peter Centgraf
<peter@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I agree with Tom's assessment. Each Nebula widget is effectively its
own small, independent project with separate committers. None of the projects has a full-time dedicated resource, so progress happens in fits and starts in a very unpredictable fashion. A release plan would be very difficult to coordinate across all of the projects.
Frankly, I don't know if any of us are willing to devote the time it would take to go from "good enough" to "high quality". Is the Eclipse Foundation willing to tolerate this state of affairs indefinitely? I think there's a lot of valuable work here, even though the projects aren't very active.
P.S. I would welcome Tom as a new project lead. The more the merrier.
--
Peter
