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[nebula-dev] Re: nebula-dev Digest, Vol 26, Issue 8
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>>
#5 - why would they want to work under Nebula? No offense meant here
either, but there is a cost to working under this umbrella and the benefits
don't seem especially well laid out... I'm really not sure what they are
even. Overall, I've had a better experience with code at Sourceforge and
have reopened development of CDateTime there (where it began) - I plan on
reconnecting with Peter and seeing what I can transfer over, but for my
development SF is good and, most importantly, widgets are fun again.<<
The main reasons to stay at Eclipse IMO are:
1) (If we can actually ship a real build,) you get more visibility for your work.
2) Companies that rely on the Eclipse IP process will trust you.
3) Eclipse keeps track of the ongoing IP book keeping as long as you keep things up to date.
Dave Orme
On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 4:49 PM, <
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: CTableTree (Jeremy Dowdall)
2. Re: CTableTree (Tom Schindl)
3. Re: CTableTree (Emil Crumhorn)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:28:50 -0600
From: "Jeremy Dowdall" <jeremyd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [nebula-dev] CTableTree
To: "Nebula Dev" <nebula-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<102d8cb70806170928h568391eaucc0aebfb338a1b7d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi All,
I agree with Emil - great email Tom; this is stuff that would be of great
benefit to Nebula.
Also, no offense taken, but thanks for your concern (assuming that was for
my benefit, being the author of CTableTree and the original author of
CDateTime).
Some thoughts:
#1 - it could also be helpful to work in some information about supported
platforms:
Dormant: CTableTree - Win32
Sandbox: CTabeTree - GTK
Rebuilding the CTableTree for win32 really took all the fun out of the
project (for me) - looking back, had I just focused on gtk I probably
would've had more to hand off to the next interested party. Also, people
coming to the project would have a better understanding of what to expect
and where to begin.
#2 - perhaps a main contact and then a list of other developers and their
areas of specialty (if applicable)
#3 - a common release could also help bring the members of Nebula together -
each widget really is a separate project, but the lack of cross-over efforts
has always been disappointing. People are busy but generall want to help
out, so any bits of infrastructure that promote working together would be
great - perhaps a common goal would be a good starting point?
#4 - I think transfer of ownership should give the original author 1st right
of refusal, but should err on the side of the code's vitality - meaning, if
I can't be reached for a reasonable amount of time, then whoever wants to
work on CTableTree should be able to keep the code alive; if for some
reason, however, someone wants to take over the code while I'm working on it
they wouldn't be allowed without some sort of due process.
#5 - why would they want to work under Nebula? No offense meant here
either, but there is a cost to working under this umbrella and the benefits
don't seem especially well laid out... I'm really not sure what they are
even. Overall, I've had a better experience with code at Sourceforge and
have reopened development of CDateTime there (where it began) - I plan on
reconnecting with Peter and seeing what I can transfer over, but for my
development SF is good and, most importantly, widgets are fun again.
anyway, just some thoughts
cheers,
jeremy
On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 1:43 AM, Emil Crumhorn <emil.crumhorn@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> Good email Tom.
>
> Allow me to fill in that list slightly:
>
> CollapisbleButtons - Emil Crumhorn
> CalendarCombo - Emil Crumhorn
> GanttChart - Emil Crumhorn
>
> As far as 1.0 goes or Sandbox, The GanttChart is by far ready for a proper
> 1.0 release (of my current 2.0 "alpha" release). There are quite a few
> people using it in production environments and I have basically zero bugs
> filed against it. People seem quite happy with it and most emails I get is
> people asking about extending or customizing.
>
> The other two widgets can wait. CalendarCombo is currently broken on GTK
> with no fix in sight due to listeners not firing where they should, and I
> just heard yesterday about some issues on latest OS/X as well (which makes
> me wonder if it's the same issues). I haven't had time to check that yet.
> CollapsibleButtons is stable as far as the widget goes, but it needs some
> better layout handling, as currently it's a bit of a chore to "push it into
> place", there's also a bug or two filed against it.
>
> Speaking of NattTable, I checked it out, and it is a cool project. Due to
> needing a production table right away I went with KTable + Glazed Lists,
> which is an amazing combination, Glazed Lists are cooler than cool in my
> book and work without a hitch: http://publicobject.com/glazedlists/ .. I
> would love to see the Grid using an implementation of that for example, for
> sorting / filtering etc. KTable itself has some issues, but for what we
> needed it's ok plus GlazedLists came with example models for using KTable.
>
> It seems many table-widgets are somewhere inbetween usable and problematic,
> I truly hope one project can ride out the storm as a fast and stable
> Table-widget replacement would be a very nice welcome to pretty much all my
> projects.
>
> Emil
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 9:27 AM, Tom Schindl <listom@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This pops up a question.
>>
>> 1. Do we need project states
>> ----------------------------
>> Do we need something like a dormant state for our projects to indicate
>> that there's currently no active committer working on them.
>>
>> I think nebula is structured like the Apache Commons Project which has to
>> following sub-project structure:
>>
>> * The Commons Proper - A repository of reusable Java components.
>> * The Commons Sandbox - A workspace for Java component development.
>> * The Commons Dormant - A repository of Sandbox components that are
>> currently inactive.
>>
>> This is no offense to anybody but it would make the situation clear to
>> everybody outside.
>>
>> Looking at the current Widgets I'd structure them the following:
>> - Dormant: CTableTree
>> - Proper: *needs at least a 1.0 release*
>> - Sandbox: CompositeTable, CDateTime, FormattedText, Gallery, Grid,
>> PGroup, PShelf, CollapsibleButtons, GanttChart
>>
>> Components I'm uncertain about are:
>> DateChooser, DateChooserCombo, CalendarCombo
>>
>>
>> 2. Can we maintain somewhere who is responsible for which widget?
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> I currently did find a list who is responsible for what. The only resource
>> I found to get this information from are the cvs commits.
>>
>> PShelf - Chris Gross
>> PGroup - Chris Gross
>> Gallery & GalleryViewer - Nicolas Richeton
>> Grid & GridViewer - Chris Gross & Tom Schindl (if vote succeeds)
>> CTableTree - noone => dormant
>> CompositeTable - David Orme
>> CDateTime - Peter Centraf
>> FormattedText - ?
>> CollapsibleButtons - ?
>> GanttChart - ?
>> DateChooser - ?
>> DateChooserCombo - ?
>> CalendarCombo - ?
>>
>> 3. Can we try to get a release out of the door
>> ----------------------------------------------
>> Often people come up and say they won't use Nebula-Widgets because they
>> are not having had a 1.0 release are marked as Alpha. This situation is not
>> ideal because some of them are as stable as any other SWT-Widget is.
>>
>> I think the following components are ready for a 1.0 release:
>> - PShelf
>> - PGroup
>> - Gallery (Nicolas?)
>>
>> The following ones are not far away from 1.0 release:
>> - Grid & GridViewer
>>
>> 4. How to move widget-owner-ship if original author is not reachable
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> CTreeTable is an example for a situation that can happen (once more this
>> not offense) to any of the widget. The author moves on and after some time
>> another person from the community pops up and what's to work on the code.
>> How do we decided to give ownership to someone different without the
>> feedback from the original author?
>>
>> Peter there was someone mailing me privately today about a problem with
>> CDateTime and Vista. Did you see this one?
>>
>> 5. A cool new nebula component would be:
>> ----------------------------------------
>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/nattable/. I know once more a Grid like
>> implementation but maybe we can convince them to do their development under
>> the umbrella of nebula and eclipse.
>>
>> I hope this mail is not too long and you all read through it until here.
>> Thanks for your feedback.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> Peter Centgraf schrieb:
>>
>>> The original author of CTableTree and CDateTime hasn't been around to
>>> maintain them for a couple of years now. He handed off CDateTime to me, but
>>> I don't think anyone is maintaining CTableTree aka CTree. If you want to
>>> take over the project, I don't think anyone would object. The code is
>>> available in CVS in the Technology Project repository, as you can see here:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.swt.nebula/org.eclipse.nebula.widgets.ctree/?root=Technology_Project
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:* nebula-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
>>> nebula-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Healy, Dan J.
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 12, 2008 12:27 PM
>>> *To:* nebula-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>> *Subject:* [nebula-dev] CTableTree
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>
>>> What is the current status of the CTableTree? I saw a few conversations
>>> about it being converted to CTree, but I see that the Nebula project still
>>> has CTableTree on the home page. I'm just as happy with that, as I am able
>>> to get the .jar file to work for me, but I'm not able to find the source in
>>> the CTableTree download, or in CVS.
>>>
>>> I'd be fine with the CTableTree, if I could find the source and fix up
>>> the presentation a bit. Or, if there's a component page for CTree that I'm
>>> just not seeing a link to, I could probably work with that.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> -dan healy
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nebula-dev mailing list
>>> nebula-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/nebula-dev
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nebula-dev mailing list
>> nebula-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/nebula-dev
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Emil Crumhorn - emil.crumhorn@xxxxxxxxx
> Senior Software Engineer
> http://www.hexapixel.com/
> _______________________________________________
> nebula-dev mailing list
> nebula-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/nebula-dev
>
>
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:25:09 +0200
From: Tom Schindl <listom@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [nebula-dev] CTableTree
To: Nebula Dev <nebula-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <48580185.1020804@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi Jeremy,
I'll comment on the other points later
[...]
> #5 - why would they want to work under Nebula? No offense meant here
> either, but there is a cost to working under this umbrella and the
> benefits don't seem especially well laid out... I'm really not sure what
> they are even. Overall, I've had a better experience with code at
> Sourceforge and have reopened development of CDateTime there (where it
> began) - I plan on reconnecting with Peter and seeing what I can
> transfer over, but for my development SF is good and, most importantly,
> widgets are fun again.
What makes working under nebula different from working on sourceforge?
After you have done to initial stuff (signed committer agreement, ...)
there's no limiting thing in nebula as far as I can see but on the other
hand you can reach many developers because your control is part of
eclipse (and advertised on the website).
Would anybody of you ever heard of the cool widgets if they are not part
of nebula? I always thought the purpose for the creation of the
Nebula-Project was to provide a central platform for widget creators to
have a place people can look for additional widgets.
If there's something that holds off people from making the widget part
of nebula I think there needs to get a bug filed and fixed immediately ;-)
Tom
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 23:49:41 +0200
From: "Emil Crumhorn" <emil.crumhorn@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [nebula-dev] CTableTree
To: "Nebula Dev" <nebula-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<fbc96dbe0806171449j477c7540xe146cbb51e92a777@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Personally my biggest "issue" is that Nightly builds aren't working (which
I've voiced over and over and asked about without any answers). It seems if
one "widget" has bad code, the entire build for Nebula fails (I'm not sure
that's 100% correct, but from some old email thread that seems to be the
case). I'm not sure who gets notified, but it doesn't seem to be the widget
owner. From what I can see, the last nightly build ran on February 11th at
3:01 AM... I haven't heard anything of why they don't work, and neither do I
know the inner workings of the Eclipse build process nor seem to have any
access to it through the Eclipse portal.
I re-linked all my widget download links to my own server where I set up a
nightly build process, just so that those that don't want to check
everything out of CVS all the time to get the latest code, can download the
latest jars/javadocs/etc, but I'm sure there's many that don't have the
option of doing something similar. It'd be nice to know what's going on with
the builds and to get them up and running, and even better, to have a build
run on each widget seperately so if one repo has code that won't compile, it
doesn't affect everyone else.
Emil
On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 8:25 PM, Tom Schindl <listom@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi Jeremy,
>
> I'll comment on the other points later
>
> [...]
>
>> #5 - why would they want to work under Nebula? No offense meant here
>> either, but there is a cost to working under this umbrella and the benefits
>> don't seem especially well laid out... I'm really not sure what they are
>> even. Overall, I've had a better experience with code at Sourceforge and
>> have reopened development of CDateTime there (where it began) - I plan on
>> reconnecting with Peter and seeing what I can transfer over, but for my
>> development SF is good and, most importantly, widgets are fun again.
>>
>
> What makes working under nebula different from working on sourceforge?
>
> After you have done to initial stuff (signed committer agreement, ...)
> there's no limiting thing in nebula as far as I can see but on the other
> hand you can reach many developers because your control is part of eclipse
> (and advertised on the website).
>
> Would anybody of you ever heard of the cool widgets if they are not part of
> nebula? I always thought the purpose for the creation of the Nebula-Project
> was to provide a central platform for widget creators to have a place people
> can look for additional widgets.
>
> If there's something that holds off people from making the widget part of
> nebula I think there needs to get a bug filed and fixed immediately ;-)
>
> Tom
>
> _______________________________________________
> nebula-dev mailing list
> nebula-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/nebula-dev
>
--
Emil Crumhorn - emil.crumhorn@xxxxxxxxx
Senior Software Engineer
http://www.hexapixel.com/
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