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Re: [ide-dev] Respinning Mars.2 with GTK2 by default


----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Schaefer" <cdtdoug@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Discussions about the IDE" <ide-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, 4 May, 2016 5:55:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [ide-dev] Respinning Mars.2 with GTK2 by default
> 
> The most frightening thing from the bug was this statement:
> 
> "changes in Gtk itself and SWT relying on GTK internals so open to breakage
> when GTK devs change their internals (rightfully so as SWT do hacks to
> achieve certain things)"
> 
> How can this ever be sustainable if SWT is using GTK internal APIs.

Hey, are you saying that CDT is not using internal API ? :)

IMHO, this happens partly due to Eclipse trying to support too wide variety of GTK versions thus big part of the implementation is non-ideal.
The other part is just so much manpower - fwiw, these areas are less and less in every next release but there is just so much work that can happen in one release time by the X people working.
Also when issue is due to a change in upstream GTK it's a matter of updating your Eclipse when you update your GTK version - not an insane requirement IMHO. All critical issues with GTK 3.20 were fixed in the Neon stream prior to GTK 3.20 was released.

> 
> The words "drop support for Linux" has been spoken around where I sit. Of
> course that's not a solution since we care about our users on Linux. But
> they will tend to use whatever Linux distro the feel comfortable with. Not
> all of them are using Fedora.

Well, have I mentioned Fedora. From the feedback I get OpenSuse and Mageia have more or less the same experience as Fedora, most probably Debian and others are fine too (no feedback coming to me). 
Issue with one distribution is not issue with all Linux distros. :)

> 
> On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 6:55 AM, Aleksandar Kurtakov < akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx >
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mickael Istria" < mistria@xxxxxxxxxx > 
> > To: ide-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Sent: Wednesday, 4 May, 2016 1:51:46 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ide-dev] Respinning Mars.2 with GTK2 by default
> > 
> > On 05/04/2016 12:36 PM, Aleksandar Kurtakov wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > So why don't people:
> > * Plea with Ubuntu to get some of their bugs fixed?
> > * Help SWT project fix some bugs?
> > * Give equal treatment to distros and not try to punish one for the other?
> > 
> > I want to repeat it loud. SWT on GTK3 is not broken (yes it has bugs but
> > less
> > than SWT on GTK2 even), SWT on GTK3 on Ubuntu is broken (many reasons
> > described in the bug) so why don't people try to fix things in Ubuntu or in
> > Ubuntu specific way without trying to "screw off" everyone else?
> > I totally support Aleksandar's POV. Every couple of years, Ubuntu comes
> > with
> > a new fancy approach to something that is immature, incompatible with the
> > state-of-art and breaks Eclipse. This mustn't be a reason to reduce quality
> > on other distributions.
> > As a Fedora user, I'd highly dislike GTK2 to be the default, because it's
> > uglier.
> > 
> > Isn't it possible, rather than impacting all distributions, to detect the
> > current distribution and/or desktop system (Unity/Gnome-Shell) and to make
> > some recommendation and tweaks based on that?
> 
> Possible and even done in few places to prevent crashes or to make things
> behave similarly to all other distros. Now it's up to the numerous Ubuntu
> users to add and maintain (as next version will break again) the tweaks they
> want to see.
> 
> > So Ubuntu users would be prompted to try one of the 3 ways to improve their
> > experience.
> > --
> > Mickael Istria
> > Eclipse developer at JBoss, by Red Hat
> > My blog - My Tweets
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
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> 
> --
> Alexander Kurtakov
> Red Hat Eclipse team
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> 
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-- 
Alexander Kurtakov
Red Hat Eclipse team