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RE: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE with XML editor
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Philippe,
I'm not on the Tools PMC so my opinions are my own and do not reflect those
of the tools PMC...
My opinions are based on experience with helping lead the Modeling PMC and
leading the EMF/EMFT subprojects. I totally agree with you that having a
vibrant and diverse community depends on being flexible and responding
rapidly to interested parties looking to contribute and join the fun.
Tediously long delays and any perception of loss of control of one's work
are significant barriers and those need to be lowered as much as possible.
Parallel IP is a crucial aspect of that. So, rather than ask the tools PMC
for advice, I'd suggest you be more forceful tell them exactly what you
plan/propose to do. I.e., I plan to create the "VET" subproject as an
incubating satellite project for VE. The organization and intent are
analogous to the Modeling project's EMFT subproject which is an incubating
satellite for EMF and is organized according to these rules:
http://wiki.eclipse.org/Modeling_Project_Organization
Note that when creating EMFT components I ask for votes from all existing
EMF and EMFT committers.
If folks want to suggest an alternative Tools-specific structure, that's
their obligation to provide and to enable quickly. It's really hard to
effect change, as you saw with the request to clean up the messy structure
in CVS, so it seems best that you focus on doing the right things for VE
and hope that others will follow that lead.
Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
mailto: merks@xxxxxxxxxx
905-413-3265 (t/l 969)
"Philippe
Ombredanne"
<pombredanne@gmai To
l.com> "'Tools PMC mailing list'"
Sent by: <tools-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
tools-pmc-bounces cc
@eclipse.org
Subject
RE: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev]
10/21/2007 01:08 Contribution on VE with XML editor
AM
Please respond to
pombredanne@gmail
.com; Please
respond to
Tools PMC mailing
list
<tools-pmc@eclips
e.org>
Ladies and gentlemen:
You are the tools PMC, so I am asking for guidance.
The VE project is in recovery mode. I just want to find a solution (I like
the approach suggested by Jeff and Ed to have something like a tools
incubator) to welcome resonably quickly new committers which are joinning
with significant pieces of code that they have built on top of VE.
I consider that important for the project and I want to benefit from the //
ip process such as not to loose the fledgling momentum that is building
around VE.
In contrast to many other projects, this is an all volunteer project and to
bring in good souls fast (especially bring in good souls that come with a
significant piece of code) is important for VE.
Whatever the solution you pick is fine
Shall I:
a) start our own VE incubator
b) work so that we start a common tools incubator to incubate for all tools
projects
And if you consider that neither a or b is acceptable to you, that is fine.
I just need to know.
There are always alternatives. Sourceforge and Google are some of them.
Cordially
--
Cheers
Philippe
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff McAffer [mailto:Jeff_McAffer@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 6:55 PM
To: Tools PMC mailing list
Cc: pombredanne@xxxxxxxxx; Tools PMC mailing list;
tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx; 'Discussions people developing code for the
Visual Editor project'
Subject: RE: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE with XML editor
I don't follow this. the only thing that is an incubator is a subproject
(according to the current development process). so as Ed points out, the
question is whether to have a Tools Incubator project that has N
protentially largely unrelated components to incubate stuff for various
other Tools projects or to have N Tools projects each of which is an
incubator in its own right. The former is simpler from a process point of
view but perhaps less than optimal from a community point of view.
Jeff
Doug Schaefer
<DSchaefer@xxxxxxx>
Sent by:
tools-pmc-bounces@ec To
lipse.org Tools PMC mailing list
<tools-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
pombredanne@xxxxxxxxx
10/18/2007 11:20 AM cc
tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx, "'Discussions
people developing code for the Visual Editor
Please respond to project'" <ve-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Tools PMC mailing Subject
list RE: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev] Contribution on
<tools-pmc@eclipse. VE with XML editor
org>
I agree. I'm not sure why the subproject would be an incubator. Why
couldn't
we just put the code in an incubator.
Doug Schaefer, QNX Software Systems
Eclipse CDT Project Lead, http://cdtdoug.blogspot.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Ed Merks
> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 6:00 AM
> To: pombredanne@xxxxxxxxx; Tools PMC mailing list
> Cc: 'Tools PMC mailing list'; tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx;
'Discussions
> people developing code for the Visual Editor project'
> Subject: RE: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE with XML editor
>
> Guys,
>
> It seems to be a sign of a dysfunctional process when everyone needs to
> create incubating subprojects effectively for no other reason than to
take
> advantage of parallel IP. It's just not clear who is being well served
> by
> this additional organizational complexity. Note that for EMF we have
the
> EMFT project as its permanently incubating satellite project and that
all
> the components for EMFT live under /cvsroot/modeling/org.eclipse.emf
along
> with the components for EMF so it makes little real difference whether
> EMFT
> is a separate subproject or not. As such, I don't see that it makes
much
> difference whether Tools has multiple incubating subprojects or just
one.
>
>
> Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
> mailto: merks@xxxxxxxxxx
> 905-413-3265 (t/l 969)
>
>
>
>
>
> "Philippe
> Ombredanne"
> <pombredanne@gmai
To
> l.com> "'Tools PMC mailing list'"
> Sent by: <tools-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> tools-pmc-bounces
cc
> @eclipse.org tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx,
> "'Discussions people developing
> code for the Visual Editor
> 10/17/2007 01:02 project'" <ve-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> AM
Subject
> RE: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev]
> Contribution on VE with XML
editor
> Please respond to
> pombredanne@gmail
> .com; Please
> respond to
> Tools PMC mailing
> list
> <tools-pmc@eclips
> e.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeff wrote:
> >Sure would be good to have that parallel IP process extended to all
> projects ;-)
> +1 :-P
>
> As for getting a tools incubator, I agree I think we need one. It does
not
> make sense for a tools project to start its onw incubator just because
it
> can.
> It does not make sens not have to have the ability to incubate things in
> tools, especially when those are tightly linked to a certain tools
> project.
>
> Note that web tools started theiur own incubator.
> Incubators are in, they are cool.
> Let's do one!
>
> --
> Cheers
> Philippe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tools-pmc-
> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Jeff McAffer
> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 9:35 PM
> To: Tools PMC mailing list
> Cc: Tools PMC mailing list; tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx; 'Discussions
> people developing code for the Visual Editor project'
> Subject: Re: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE with XML
editor
>
>
> you would have to have a subproject in Technology as well. IMHO it
would
> be better to have one general Tools incubator subporject with N
> components
> than N Tech subprojects. Either solution is not great.
> Jeff
>
>
>
> Ed
> Merks/Toronto/I
> BM@IBMCA
> Sent by:
To
> tools-pmc-bounc Tools PMC mailing list <tools-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> es@xxxxxxxxxxx
cc
> Tools PMC mailing list <tools-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
> tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx, "'Discussions
people
> 10/16/2007 developing code for the Visual Editor project'"
> 08:51 PM <ve-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
Subject
> Re: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE
> Please respond with XML editor
> to
> Tools PMC
> mailing list
> <tools-pmc@ecl
> ipse.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeff,
>
> Isn't that what the Technology project is for?! It seems almost
ironic
> for the Tools project to have a general purpose incubating subproject
> when
> the entire Technology project exists for this purpose...
>
>
> Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
> mailto: merks@xxxxxxxxxx
> 905-413-3265 (t/l 969)
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeff
> McAffer/Ottawa/IB
> M@IBMCA
To
> Sent by: pombredanne@xxxxxxxxx, Tools PMC
> tools-pmc-bounces mailing list
> @eclipse.org <tools-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
cc
> "'Tools PMC mailing list'"
> 10/16/2007 08:45 <tools-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
> PM tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx,
> "'Discussions people developing
> code for the Visual Editor
> Please respond to project'" <ve-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Tools PMC mailing
Subject
> list Re: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev]
> <tools-pmc@eclips Contribution on VE with XML
editor
> e.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> unfortunately the parallel IP process applies only to "Incubating
> Projects". VE is not incubating. It seems a bit extreme to set up a
new
> Tools project to incubate this work. So an interesting question is
> whether
> or not Tools should have a general "Incubator" as we do in the Eclipse
> TLP.
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> "Philippe Ombredanne"
> <pombredanne@xxxxxxxxx>
> Sent by:
To
> tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx "'Discussions people developing
> g code for the Visual Editor
> project'" <ve-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
cc
> 10/16/2007 06:46 PM "'Tools PMC mailing list'"
> <tools-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
Subject
> Please respond to [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev]
> pombredanne@xxxxxxxxx; Contribution on VE with XML
editor
> Please respond to
> Tools PMC mailing list
> <tools-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Yves:
> Welcome ! This is a great news.
> Your contributions are very much welcomed and I would love you join the
> project and be a driving force for non-Java visual editing.
> Team, I had a good discussion with Yves on the phone and here is how we
> could go at it:
> 1/ we need a VE incubator for that, so we can welcome new significant
> code
> contributions and benefit from the paralell IP process . Any thought
from
> the Tools PMC on how to do that?
> 2/ in the meantime Yves and I will work to prepare his contribution
(mini
> ip
> review, package/names space refactoring, notices, licenses etfc) and
when
> ready this will be posted in some public for everyone to review
> 3/ at that stage I'll be able to start an IPZilla CQ to get review and
> approval for that contribution
> 4/ then we can vote Yves in asa new committer
>
> The interesting things is :
> There are synergies possibilities with the proposed contribution from
> Cathy
> (the VE Groovy extensions)
> There have been request here and on the new group for XML focused VE
> extensions.
>
> Thoughts? Feedback?
>
>
> --
> Cheers
> Philippe
> http://easyeclipse.org - http://phpeclipse.net - http://eclipse.org/atf
-
> http://eclipse.org/vep - http://labs.jboss.org/drools/ -
> http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/XULRunner
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ve-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ve-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Yves YANG
> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 1:36 PM
> To: ve-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE with XML editor
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I'm Yves YANG from Soyatec. I were the CTO of Omondo from 2002 and
early
> 2006 and built the key components in EclispeUML. In my new company
> Soyatec,
> I work in a project to edit UI in XML file on top of VE since Mai 2006.
> This
> product is on production now in our custosmer. We think it could be
> profitable for all users if we can contribute this kind of solution in
> Eclipse to promote the XML UI approach, instead of the Java
programming.
> Please let me know if you are interested.
>
> Best regards
> Yves YANG
>
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