Fw: [platform-core-dev] Issues with large-scale development

[Jeff McAffer <Jeff_McAffer@xxxxxxxxxx>]

----- Forwarded by Jeff
McAffer/Ottawa/IBM on 11/26/2004 08:54 PM -----

Peter Kriens <Peter.Kriens@xxxxxxxx>

11/26/2004 07:53 AM

Please respond to
pkriens

To	Jeff McAffer/Ottawa/IBM@IBMCA
cc
Subject	Fwd: Re: [platform-core-dev] Issues with large-scale development

Wishes. A couple of weeks ago there was a question
on the developer
list about ideas/wishes for large scale developments. I compiled such
a list but it bounced because I do not seem to be accepted by the
moderator. Maybe you can find some use for it ...

Kind regards,

           Peter Kriens

From: Peter Kriens <Peter.Kriens@xxxxxxxx>
To: platform-core-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2004, 8:16:20 AM
Subject: [platform-core-dev] Issues with large-scale development

You asked for it, you got it :-)

A list of wishes:

- Support dynamic project templates. It would be very nice if a
  project could dynamically inherit from a template project, and only
  override the changed files (dynamically, not copy/paste).
  Redundancy is the root of all evil, and I think this will save some
  redundancy. It is amazing how many boilerplates are necessary
  nowadays for projects that are in a family of projects.

- Support filter expressions in the Working set. This will allow
  project names to be used in such a way that they dynamically become
  part of a set. I notice now that I spent a lot of time adding
  projects to the appropriate sets. Additionally, a small script
  language could be used to define the membership.

- Make working sets hierarchical. This should allow for operations on
  working sets.

- Support a command line shell (with completion!) which allows you to
  switch between projects. I.e. typing "cd ../org.osgi.impl.service.cm"
  and "ed Configuration.java" is a lot faster than clicking
the mouse.
  Would be nice to have lots of commands there to minimize the need
for
  the mouse. Scripting should of course also be supported. It would
be
  really nice if the syntax could also be used in normal text panes
so
  you can type anywhere, select and execute it. It should be a real
  good scripting language combined with shell features like output
  redirection and piping, but also easy to use.

- Develop an alternative to ant. Ant is ridiculous complex and ill
  suited for its task. It would be great to have a (small?) command
  line tool that can run without GUI but that has scripting and
  build facilities. Would be nice if this was could use on a real
  scripting language like groovy or netbeans, though the syntax should
  be optimized for readability. It should also support a model where
  projects are instances of a build class so you can easily and
  centrally control the build rules. Obviously ant tasks should
  somehow be supported, but it should clearly support the cool
  features of a shell like output redirection, piping, powerful
  manipulation of symbols, dependency checking, etc.

- Publish the XML interface of .classpath, .project and wherever
  Eclipse keeps its VARIABLES. This is necessary for tools to
  parse these files to do their job.

- Support the strong modularization of OSGi in the compiler. I.e. obey
  the visibility rules. Also, provide GUI support to look at the jar
  files in this light.

Minor wishes/issues:
- A last visited file list
- Detect changes on the file system, making refresh unnecessary
- When a project is created, it should automatically be added to the
  current working set.
- It should be easier to send a project to someone else. I.e. there
  needs to be a function to wrap a project in a zip file and send
it
  someone else who then creates a project out of it. Currently this
is
  too cumbersome (or I have missed something).
- Allow JAR files to be inspected, even if they are not on the
  classpath.
- A JAR file that is added to the classpath should stil showup as a
  normal file in the directory and not be replaced with the JAR icon.
  Sometimes this file needs to be selected for another task, or copied
  and this becomes impossible.



  


IF> John Arthorne wrote:
>>
>> One of the major development themes for Eclipse 3.1 is to improve
>> support for "Large-scale development" in Eclipse. This
includes 
>> improving collaboration for large, distributed teams, but it also
>> encompasses support for large workspaces. The Eclipse committers
form a
>> large, distributed group, so we have no problems gathering requirements
>> for the first aspect of the problem. However, we don't tend to
work on
>> very large projects or have very large workspaces (Eclipse is
broken up
>> into many small projects and each committer tends to only work
with a
>> handful of them).  This makes it difficult for us to see
the most 
>> pressing and important problems for those working in such environments.
>>  Bug reports have helped us identify some areas with room
for 
>> improvement, such as project creation (bug 74392), recursive deletion
>> (bug 10628), and building (bug 60803). We are making progress
on these
>> fronts, but want to make sure we are not missing other problem
areas for
>> users with very large workspaces and/or locally mounted remote
file
>> systems.  
>> 
>> This is a general call for those using Eclipse for large-scale
>> development to let us know what the major problem areas are. What
>> operations are very slow? Could the UI be improved or made more
>> responsive during long operations?  We are particularly interested
in
>> applications of Eclipse beyond the Java IDE realm, such as in
CDT and
>> web tools. Don't hesitate to also remind us about old bugs that
have
>> already been reported that are still important to you, as they
sometimes
>> get lost in bugzilla.
>> 
>> Please respond with issues and suggestions on the platform-core-dev
>> mailing list.  We don't promise to address all of the problems
that
>> people may raise, although help with identifying problems and
>> implementing and testing solutions can greatly improve a bug's
chances
>> of being fixed. Clearly there is a lot of potential work in this
area,
>> so we want to ensure that we are focused on the areas with the
largest
>> potential gain for the Eclipse community.


-- 
Peter Kriens                  
           Mob +33633746480
9C, Avenue St. Drézéry              
     Tel +33467542167
34160 Beaulieu, France              
     Tel +15123514821
AOL,Yahoo pkriens                
        ICQ 255570717

-- 
Peter Kriens                  
           Mob +33633746480
9C, Avenue St. Drézéry              
     Tel +33467542167
34160 Beaulieu, France              
     Tel +15123514821
AOL,Yahoo pkriens                
        ICQ 255570717