Re: [platform-ant-dev] Testing Ant in a target workspace

["Darin Swanson" <darins@xxxxxxxxx>]

Thanks for your offer of help Jeff.
We (Jared and I) will spend some time today to define the problems we have
had attempting
to use PDE to self host and test the Ant changes.  We will log a bug report
and CC you.

We had just assumed that these problems had been encountered before and we
were eager
to keep testing and improving Ant.  You are right in that we should work
together to find the root
of the problem.  Believe me, we would love to be back in the warm glow of
PDE self hosting...
though I am rather impressed with the debugger's support for remote
debugging (you gotta love HCR)  ;-)

How were these components self-hosted, tested in the past?
Are the problems we are seeing new?

Thanks again
Darins

>
>                       "Jeff McAffer"
>                       <Jeff_McAffer@xxxxxxx>          To:
platform-ant-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>                       Sent by:                        cc:
>                       platform-ant-dev-admin@         Subject: Re:
[platform-ant-dev]
>                       eclipse.org                     Testing Ant in a
target workspace
>
>
>                       09/30/2002 11:22 PM
>                       Please respond to
>                       platform-ant-dev
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jared,
>
> I appreciate that you have other stuff to focus on right now.  I am
willing
> to look at the classloader/PDE/testing issues you are encountering if you
> can point me at the relevant information.  The only relevant bug report I
> could find was http://dev.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=24049.  Any
> background you could supply would be useful.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>                       Jared Burns
>                       <jared-eclipse@xxxxxxxx         To:
>                       platform-ant-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
>                       m>                              cc:
>                       Sent by:                        Subject: Re:
>                       [platform-ant-dev] Testing Ant in a
>                       platform-ant-dev-admin@         target workspace
>                       eclipse.org
>
>
>                       09/30/2002 10:40 PM
>                       Please respond to
>                       platform-ant-dev
>
>
>
>
>
> This perversion is required because of a plugin classloader problem that
> occurs when trying to run Ant in a selfhosting Eclipse environment. We end
> up
> with a class (the Ant console, I believe) loaded in two separate
> classloaders. This screws up static variables and causes problems.
>
> You don't need to convince us about PDE. Until we started working on Ant,
> we
> both selfhosted using PDE like everyone else. We hope that the
> "updateTarget" dance is only a temporary workaround until we have time to
> examine the problem closer and find a "real" (PDE friendly) solution. The
> Ant
> tooling (the UI, at least) is currently in a near-crisis state (that is,
it
>
> doesn't work) so we don't have time to devote to solving meta problems
like
>
> this one.
>
> Since Ant doesn't work with normal PDE selfhosting, we assumed that the
> previous maintainers had used a similar approach for testing/debugging
Ant.
>
> Is this not the case?
>
> - Jared
>
> On Monday 30 September 2002 08:43 pm, you wrote:
> > Darin, this is useful information but it raises a few questions.  Why
> don't
> > you just use PDE to do this?  I know there is code there to do most/all
> of
> > what your scripts do.  Perhaps PDE needs to have an Ant task or two
> > provided?  There are two reasons this is important.
> >
> > First, this kind of approach is error prone.  If something changes in
the
> > build.properties file, the updateTarget.xml file must also be updated.
> >
> > The second is that for most/many people, PDE is the tool to use for
> > developing plugins.  If it does not serve the needs of those people then
> it
> > should be fixed.  The best people to find/fix the deficiencies are the
> > eclipse team itself.  To that end, I would encourage people to use PDE
> and
> > complain if it does not do what they need/want.
> >
> > MetaMoment:  I'm not quite sure of the usecase for what you are doing.
> If
> > it is ongoing testing of changes then one should be able to skip all of
> > this and just run with "-dev bin" on the target's command line.   Much
> > lighterweight.  If you want to be sure you are running "the real thing"
> > then PDE should do the trick as it generates exactly what is shipped
> (note
> > for the anally retentive like me: updateTarget.xml generates a plugin
dir
> > which has more than the real build plugin).
> >
> > Either way, if people are finding that they really have to do it this
way
> > then something is broken in our tooling.
> >
> > Jeff
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