Re: [orion-dev] Can Orion be less Eclipse

[Anthony Hunter <anthonyh@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Max / Gorkem,

With regards to your comments.

I have emailed separately instructions
on building a WAR file for Orion. My steps create the WAR from Eclipse,
because it is easy. We do not have a WAR file created by the Orion build,
maybe we should add it.

This is a likely a loaded question but
I will bite. We are an Eclipse project and we have a Java based server
implementation. It is obvious that we would use the Eclipse IDE for development.
This "forced use" of the Eclipse IDE for the Java server development
is a barrier to your usage. Can you explain a little more why?

Cheers...
Anthony




From:      
 "Max Rydahl Andersen"
<manderse@xxxxxxxxxx>
To:      
 "Orion developer
discussions" <orion-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:      
 2015/04/09 03:53 AM
Subject:    
   Re: [orion-dev]
Can Orion be less Eclipse
Sent by:    
   orion-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

---

On 3 Apr 2015, at 23:46, Gorkem Ercan wrote:

> On 2 Apr 2015, at 16:36, John Arthorne wrote:
>
>> Hi Gorkem,
>>
>> The layout of the Orion client is mainly an accident of history,
>> because
>> of how it was developed. The main Orion download we produce today
is 
>> a
>> Java EE application, and OSGi is very common in Java EE world.
We use

I think its overstating it to say osgi is *very common* in Java EE world
;)

> Java backend has more than OSGi, it has eclipse extension points etc.
> For instance servlet and filter definitions as eclipse extensions
on
> plugin.xml contributes to barriers for entry to OSGi/JavaEE developers

Yeah, biggest blocker is that with the current setup only those using 
Eclipse IDE
can actually develop and even run this easily.

>> Jetty for the open source download, but within IBM there are products
>> that
>> ship Orion as a WAR file running on other servers such as Websphere.
>
> I heard rumours about this one :) Is there any documentation on how
to
> build Orion as .war? Would it make sense to make .war one of the build
> artifacts for the project?

+1, it would be nice to actually see this in action as opposed to just
keep hearing
about it being possible ;)

>> You are right that there is absolutely no runtime benefit for
the 
>> client
>> side pieces to be organized into OSGi bundles. It is essentially
just
>> being used as a development-time and build-time way to separate
out 
>> the
>> client side pieces that are separately consumable. For example
if you
>> don't want Git you can carve out that piece and use the rest of
the
>> server. I think we would be fine with reorganizing the client
side 
>> and use
>> a different source layout as long as we maintained separation
of 
>> those
>> concerns. I.e., if you were interested in working on reorganizing
the
>> client code that would be welcome!
>
> I may give a shot at that, something in lines of npm modules perhaps?
> I
> would not like to disturb the current momentum either so I guess it
is
> best to come out with a solid proposal to discuss before anything.
>
>>
>> As for the Java server technology, I guess "standard"
is a loaded 
>> term.
>> Java Servlets and OSGi are standards as much as JAX-RS. The question
>> is
>> what problem are we solving by moving to a different Java server
side
>> technology? Is the main concern about barrier to contributors,
or is 
>> it
>> about consumability of the Java server on other Java EE application
>> servers? Or maybe both?
>>
> Not much concern was expressed on deployment. Other than the missing
> pieces on node.js backend, which is an interesting option.  I
can say
> that this is mostly about barriers to entry.

+1, the osgi, the forced needed usage of Eclipse IDE for development and
no real docs on how to build/reconfigure this is what keeps getting 
repeated
to us as reasons they have not dived into Orion.

also orion-dev is awfully quiet :)

/max
http://about.me/maxandersen
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