| Re: [modeling-pmc] Transition Plan for MDT OCLandEMF"QTV"Components? |
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Hi Kenn,
Guys, A group can arrange whatever dynamic it likes but I won't be making up special governance rules for any project beyond what's already been put in place. It's certainly clear that a project lead is taking significant personal responsibility for all changes committed by anyone on the team. The approach I've taken with EMF Core is that I review effectively any significant change with Dave, the only other significantly active committer on the project. Certainly I'm not obligated to do that, but it turns out time and time again to have great value. Dave's especially talented and reviews every detail. I've never told him that I expect to review all his changes before he commits them, but he does anyway. I think it demonstrates that if you set a good example, others will follow. All this is to say that I suggest folks establish a good pattern of behavior that involves generally looking for feedback and establishing consensus. With that approach, a veto will be unnecessary. The idea of a community veto is simply beyond unacceptable, in my opinion. The committers have a fundamental right to choose what they think is best. They are responsible, they do the work, and of course they will have to face the repercussions of a community whose opinions they blithely ignore. So in the end, if you want to have a veto, I'd suggest you be the only committer and also do all the work by yourself. Failing that, it's best to try to play nicely with all the other children as equals. Regards, Ed Ed Willink wrote:
This is of course incredibly difficult. On the one hand I have considerable sympathy with Anthony/IBM's view. On the other hand I suspect that the qualifying contributions could be filtered to give higher weight to recent contributions and to semantically significant contributions (with considerable amounts of auto-generated EMF and LPG code many of the contributions have very flattering LOC). From reading the code, I have often noticed Christian Vogt (perhaps because of the name similarity) but when I mentioned his name in an Eclipse IP CQ, considerable record searching was required to clarify his status, so I think that Anthony's IBM colleague's claims expire through lack of recent contribution. It is certainly true that MDT-OCL originated within IBM and we are very grateful for that, but MDT-OCL has migrated to be synonymous with Christian Damus and Christian left IBM nearly a year ago. IBM should have negotiated their committer/veto at that point. That said, I think that stability of MDT-OCL merits some kind of community veto. From a purely personal point of view there are a variety of things that I would like to do, but was hampered in doing. Now I might be able to do them. It would be my responsibility for the integrity of the changes. Ow. I cannot rely on Christian to keep me on the straight and narrow. This worries me for myself and of course for other committers too. I think that we should proceed with a small group of active committers, but also have a 'veto empowered group' to approve any API-breaking changes (other than LPG grammar constants). Unreasonable use of a veto to be referred and assessed by the PMC with potential penalty of exclusion from the 'veto empowered group'. I propose Christian Damus as a founder member (subject to his and the PMC's agreement) of the 'veto empowered group'. Regards Ed Willink -----Original Message----- From: modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Anthony Hunter Sent: 18 March 2009 01:00 To: PMC members mailing list Subject: RE: [modeling-pmc] Transition Plan for MDT OCLandEMF"QTV"Components? Hi Kenn
Folks, It has been brought to my attention that the information available at http://www.eclipse.org/projects/ip_log.php?projectid=modeling.mdt is not as accurate/correct as I had originally assumed, and that a more accurate source for information on contributions to the OCL component can be found in CVS at http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/www/modeling/mdt/eclipse-project-ip-log.csv?root=Eclipse_Website&view=markup. Apparently, Christian has been maintaining this record fastidiously, despite the recent introduction of the automated IP tracker. Based on this more accurate record, I’m afraid the list of new committers needs to be reduced slightly: Adolfo Sánchez-Barbudo Herrera (opencanarias.com) Laurent Goubet (obeo.fr) Edward Willink (willink.me.uk) Aleksandr Igdalov (borland.com) Sorry for any confusion. Cheers, Kenn Hussey Program Manager, Modeling and Design Solutions Embarcadero Technologies, Inc. | www.embarcadero.com 82 Peter Street, Second Floor | Toronto, ON M5V 2G5 Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Office: 416-593-1585 x9296 Mobile: 613-301-9105 From: mdt-ocl.dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:mdt-ocl.dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kenn Hussey Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 3:54 PM To: MDT OCL mailing list; PMC members mailing list Cc: Ed Merks Subject: RE: [mdt-ocl.dev] RE: [modeling-pmc] Transition Plan for MDT OCLandEMF"QTV"Components? So, based on the discussion during the Modeling PMC call, we will appoint (only) the individuals from the proposed list who have made prior contributions to the OCL component. Based on the IP log at http://www.eclipse.org/projects/ip_log.php?projectid=modeling.mdt, this would include the following individuals: Adolfo Sánchez-Barbudo Herrera (opencanarias.com) Laurent Goubet (obeo.fr) Anthony Hunter (ca.ibm.com) Edward Willink (willink.me.uk) Aleksandr Igdalov (borland.com) Is anyone (who has been a contributor) missing from this list? This new team will have to decide amongst themselves who should be the new component lead… Once that has been done (and we’ve confirmed that the list is complete), I’ll forward the names to the EMO on behalf of the PMC. Cheers, Kenn Hussey Program Manager, Modeling and Design Solutions Embarcadero Technologies, Inc. | www.embarcadero.com 82 Peter Street, Second Floor | Toronto, ON M5V 2G5 Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Office: 416-593-1585 x9296 Mobile: 613-301-9105 From: mdt-ocl.dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:mdt-ocl.dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kenn Hussey Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:30 AM To: PMC members mailing list Cc: MDT OCL mailing list; Ed Merks Subject: [mdt-ocl.dev] RE: [modeling-pmc] Transition Plan for MDT OCL andEMF"QTV"Components? Team, As lead of the MDT project, of which OCL is a component, I would like to stress Rich’s point that this is not a “land grab”. As far as I understand things, if we’re not going to hold a Termination Review, it’s up to the PMC (and me as this component’s representative to the PMC) to appoint a new set of committers. This set must be based on the principles of the Eclipse Development Process (e.g. history of contributions), and the new team must agree with the current scope of the OCL component. Should we wish to deviate from either of these, I would suggest a Termination Review as a more appropriate course of action. BTW, we will be discussing this at today’s Modeling PMC meeting, details of which can be found at http://wiki.eclipse.org/Modeling_PMC_Meeting,_2009-03-17. Cheers, Kenn Hussey Program Manager, Modeling and Design Solutions Embarcadero Technologies, Inc. | www.embarcadero.com 82 Peter Street, Second Floor | Toronto, ON M5V 2G5 Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Office: 416-593-1585 x9296 Mobile: 613-301-9105 From: modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Richard Gronback Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:11 AM To: PMC members mailing list Cc: Ed Merks Subject: Re: [modeling-pmc] Transition Plan for MDT OCL and EMF"QTV"Components? Yes, of course. This underscores my point of assigning new committers based on contribution; after all, it’s not a land grab ;) With that, I’d be interested to know the level of effort each expects they will be able to apply toward maintaining the component. I think we all agree Christian has set a pretty high bar on what’s expected. Thanks, Rich On 3/17/09 9:04 AM, "Adolfo Sánchez-Barbudo Herrera" <adolfosbh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Rich, I think you could have a quick idea if you have a look to the IP Log for the MDT project: http://www.eclipse.org/projects/ip_log.php?projectid=modeling.mdt Cheers, Adolfo. Richard Gronback escribió: I suggest that each proposed committer present a list of contributions they have made to MDT OCL, in order for each to be evaluated on the meritocratic basis upon which Eclipse projects operate. Thanks, Rich On 3/16/09 11:04 AM, "Freddy Allilaire" <freddy.allilaire@xxxxxxx> <mailto:freddy.allilaire@xxxxxxx> wrote: Hi Ed, Here is the proposed set of committers for MDT/OCL subproject lead : Freddy Allilaire committers : Anthony Hunter Bernd Kolb another SAP guy ;-) Laurent Goubet Bernd : we'll soon need the "SAP guy" name ;-) Regards, Freddy Ed Merks a écrit : Guys, I've asked the EMO about how to handle this and they are fine if we simply identify for each component a new set of committers. So I'll expect to see a proposed set of committers, including a lead, for each component *by the end of next week*, and then I'll go forward with that list. Cheers, Ed Anthony Hunter wrote: So Christian, are you willing to baby sit the components on your own time until a termination review? Or would you rather vote in a some committers on each of these components to take over next week, with the provision that things could change based on the to be scheduled termination review? Cheers... Anthony -- Anthony Hunter mailto:anthonyh@xxxxxxxxxx Software Development Manager: Eclipse Open Source Components IBM Rational Software: Aurora / GEF / GMF / Modeling Tools Phone: 613-270-4613 Inactive hide details for "Christian W. Damus" ---03/12/2009 10:16:29 AM---Hi, Kenn, Thanks for your prompt input. That has be"Christian W. Damus" ---03/12/2009 10:16:29 AM---Hi, Kenn, Thanks for your prompt input. That has been my understanding, too. From: "Christian W. Damus" <give.a.damus@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:give.a.damus@xxxxxxxxx> To: PMC members mailing list <modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx> Date: 03/12/2009 10:16 AM Subject: [modeling-pmc] Re: [emf-dev] Re: [mdt-ocl.dev] Transition Plan for MDT OCL and EMF"QTV" Components? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hi, Kenn, Thanks for your prompt input. That has been my understanding, too. Perhaps the name of this review mechanism is problematic: it should be called the "Please-help-Eclipse-to-decide-what-to-do-with-this-project Review." :-) I shall work up some slides, then, for termination reviews of these components and send them out for feed-back before asking the EMO to schedule the reviews. These slides will make it clear that there is, in my opinion, sufficient interest to re-boot these components with new committers under new leadership and that this should be the recommended course of action. As I understand it, the interested parties will have an opportunity to collaborate on the new road-map, committer team, and leadership for these components. Thanks! Christian On 12-Mar-09, at 8:50 AM, Kenn Hussey wrote: Christian, The process for ³vaulting of individuals into committer positions² IS the Termination Review, AFAIK. To be clear, a Termination Review does not automatically mean the project/component will be terminated/archived; it gives the community the chance to step up and potentially do a reboot. I don¹t think we can/should replace all of the committers (only one in this case) with new ones via the usual voting process unless we can justify the new committers based on meritocracyŠ Cheers, *Kenn Hussey Program Manager, Modeling and Design Solutions* *<image001.jpg>* <http://www.embarcadero.com/> *Embarcadero Technologies, Inc. | **www.embarcadero.com* <http://www.embarcadero.com/>* 82 Peter Street, Second Floor | Toronto, ON M5V 2G5*_ _*Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx* <mailto:Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>* Office: 416-593-1585 x9296 Mobile: 613-301-9105* *From:* _emf-dev-bounces@eclipse.org_ <mailto:emf-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx> [_mailto:emf-dev-bounces@eclipse.org_] *On Behalf Of *Christian W.Damus* Sent:* Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:40 AM* To:* PMC members mailing list* Cc:* MDT OCL mailing list; Eclipse Modelling Framework* Subject:* [emf-dev] Re: [mdt-ocl.dev] Transition Plan for MDT OCL and EMF"QTV" Components? Hi, Thanks to Anthony, Cédric, and Bernd for expressing willingness to commit to the continued vitality of these components! It's great to see such support. Just to be clear, again: as I understand it, Termination Review is the only process by which a project's committer team might be changed /en masse/ on events such as this, and the preferred outcome for all stakeholders is always that the project continue under new leadership with a new committer team. If there is another mechanism available, or if the Modeling PMC can direct a transition, please let me know! I prefer a smooth transition of these components into willing and capable hands. For example, if the PMC can approve the vaulting of individuals into committer positions that they would not, under normal circumstances, yet have earned, then that works for me. Kenn? Ed? What is your recommendation as PMC reps for the projects involved? Thanks, Christian On 11-Mar-09, at 5:30 PM, Christian W. Damus wrote: Hello, my PMC, As most of you already know, I have been unemployed for some time now. That interval is now coming to an end, to my great relief. However, in my new employment, the job description does not include time to spend on development of the Eclipse Modeling components on which I am currently a committer. Nor would I expect it to, as the work is quite removed from the MDD sphere. I would not be able to contribute as a committer on these components to the standard expected of the Eclipse community, and certainly not my own standard, on my own personal time. Therefore, I shall need to relinquish my committer rights on the MDT OCL component and the EMF Query, Transaction, and Validation components as of next week. The problem is, of course, that I am the only committer on these components. As I understand the Eclipse process, a Project that finds itself without any committers proceeds to Termination Review in the hope that the project can be re-staffed. Is the same true of Components? Can we assume that the rules of the new process (in which these components that are still Components would be Projects) should apply? Please advise. Thanks, Christian _______________________________________________ mdt-ocl.dev mailing list_ __mdt-ocl.dev@eclipse.org_ <mailto:mdt-ocl.dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>_ __https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/mdt-ocl.dev_ _______________________________________________ mdt-ocl.dev mailing list_ __mdt-ocl.dev@eclipse.org_ <mailto:mdt-ocl.dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>_ __https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/mdt-ocl.dev_ _______________________________________________ modeling-pmc mailing list modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/modeling-pmc ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ modeling-pmc mailing list modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/modeling-pmc ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ modeling-pmc mailing list modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/modeling-pmc _______________________________________________ modeling-pmc mailing list modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/modeling-pmc _______________________________________________ modeling-pmc mailing list modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/modeling-pmc _______________________________________________ modeling-pmc mailing list modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/modeling-pmc _______________________________________________ modeling-pmc mailing list modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/modeling-pmc _______________________________________________ modeling-pmc mailing list modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/modeling-pmc |
