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Re: [m2m-iwg] M3DA presentation - Security

Rick/all,

you raised a good point

...

I'm quite familiar with OAuth - we use it quite often to authenticate against backend apps and data sources, but I don't think it is the appropriate on-device authentication mechanism or even the right technique for device -> cloud.  It is better suited towards authentication on a "sensor cloud" or other intermediate server that exposes the device data/capabilities.  Perhaps there are some scenarios where OAuth could be used in an on-site gateway to provide access to other users/apps, but in general, OAuth is a fairly poor choice for securing M2M applications due to the lack of granular ACLs.  It tends to be used for "all or nothing" access control.   M2M applications require a far more granular security model, including read/write access at an individual sensor/actuator level.  That would quickly become totally unmanageable using OAuth.

I think it is important to avoid falling into the trap of universally leveraging technologies that were designed for social apps (which are very "non mission critical") for applications in the M2M space.

Rick
...

As of now, even the M2M oriented goals, JSRs and experts in places like the Java Community Process have trouble distinguishing those in some cases. 

Often these are called "application specific", but at least a majority of OGC (Open Geospatial Consortium) standards around Sensor Web do make a difference between the Sensor Web and an underlying Physical Device network.

This is not only important for things like Security, at the very least on the Sensor Web Layer it is also crucial, that Units of Measurement codes are handled in device-agnostic international and unambiguous ways, e.g. like the UCUM code standard defines it. While depending on the way devices talk with each other on the lower levels, this may follow similar standards or be entirely device and vendor proprietary.

Werner

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 6:55 PM, <m2m-iwg-request@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: M3DA presentation - Security (Julien Vermillard)
   2. Re: M3DA presentation - Security (Rick Bullotta)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:50:27 +0100
From: Julien Vermillard <jvermillard@xxxxxxxxx>
To: m2m Industry Working Group <m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [m2m-iwg] M3DA presentation - Security
Message-ID:
        <CAN9CcB9-C_FiT04GT+X5Xivku9HZ8M==jc1s3cn+C1HZeKka0A@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Oauth is just an authorization/authentication scheme, it require a secured
communication channel (means SSL/TLS here) so it's doing much for securing
your communication (confidentiality, integrity). And it's very HTTP
dependent, I think it's not really something usable in the scope of a
binary, low bandwidth, low complexity protocol.


On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 6:44 PM, Matteo Collina <matteo.collina@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:

> Rick,
>
> OAuth is also a mean for authorizing identified clients to communicate
> with a server.
> Upon that identification, the client *might* want to access some User
> resources.
> The key it that's optional and application-dependent, e.g. on twitter
> there is no need
> to authenticating users for making a search (
> https://dev.twitter.com/docs/api/1/get/search).
>
> I think that if there is the User involved, then OAuth is clearly the way
> to go for securing the communications.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Matteo
>
> 2013/3/11 Rick Bullotta <rick.bullotta@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>>  Oauth is primarily used as a permission proxy for an application
>> accessing another application on behalf of a user. I think it is generally
>> overly complex for many M2M device level scenarios.
>>
>> On Mar 11, 2013, at 6:02 AM, "UOMo" <uomo@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>  Cuero/all,
>>
>>  Thanks for the information. I looked mainly at the security document
>> for now. Having reviewed and commented other aspects earlier.
>> One question is, why the de facto standard OAuth 2 can't also be used for
>> authentication here? It is a mechanism for API calls, not every call e.g.
>> some of those infamous Twitter "bots" and similar services make are by a
>> human actor either. And yet they use the same auth protocols and mechanisms
>> there.
>>
>>  In fact, the AirLink team and product families are mentioned together
>> with OAuth and M2M a lot, too, so it's not like Sierra or AirLink would not
>> use it.
>> Aside from that, in the documentation of the current approach,
>> username/password is presented as the only option. At the current
>> (transport, smart container) client we have numerous cases, where SSH keys
>> are preferred over exchanging username/password, even if those should be
>> hashed or encrypted, there's always a risk of sniffing or tampering. At
>> least the additional option of such keys should be offered.
>>
>>  Where devices allow, e.g. if they use a SIM card, Java Card or similar
>> secure element, this Secure Element could also further improve security and
>> Trust of M2M communications. When do you plan to add any of that?
>>
>>  Regards,
>> Werner
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 6:00 PM, <m2m-iwg-request@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Send m2m-iwg mailing list submissions to
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>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>    1. Re: M3DA presentation (Ian Skerrett)
>>>    2. Re: M3DA presentation (Cuero Bugot)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 09:56:44 -0500
>>> From: "Ian Skerrett" <ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: "'m2m Industry Working Group'" <m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Subject: Re: [m2m-iwg] M3DA presentation
>>> Message-ID: <01a801ce1a7a$d1dc2180$75946480$@eclipse.org>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> I think this would be a great idea.  I have definitely interested. Do you
>>> have a link to M3DA information?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Cuero Bugot
>>> Sent: March-06-13 9:42 AM
>>> To: m2m Industry Working Group (m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx)
>>> Subject: [m2m-iwg] M3DA presentation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It has been discussed on this list a couple of weeks ago. We?d like to
>>> do a
>>> quick presentation on the M3DA protocol that we are proposing in the
>>> Mihini
>>> project context.
>>>
>>> If you are interested we could add it to the next weekly  call agenda.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This would be the occasion to cover M3DA basics, and have an open
>>> discussion
>>> and comparison with other existing protocols, specifically the ones
>>> available in this working group.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Cuero
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cuero Bugot  ::   Embedded R&D Manager
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 07:14:32 -0800
>>> From: Cuero Bugot <cbugot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: m2m Industry Working Group <m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Subject: Re: [m2m-iwg] M3DA presentation
>>> Message-ID:
>>>         <
>>> 9287D1909D3EEA4E92505D48604887E95E23C2D251@carmd-exchmb01.sierrawireless.local
>>> >
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> Sorry I did not mention that a presentation was attached. And more
>>> importantly here is the link to the actual specification:
>>> http://wiki.eclipse.org/Mihini/M3DA_Specification
>>>
>>> Thanks for catching this.
>>>
>>> Cuero
>>>
>>> De : m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
>>> De la part de Ian Skerrett
>>> Envoy? : mercredi 6 mars 2013 15:57
>>> ? : 'm2m Industry Working Group'
>>> Objet : Re: [m2m-iwg] M3DA presentation
>>>
>>> I think this would be a great idea.  I have definitely interested. Do
>>> you have a link to M3DA information?
>>>
>>> From: m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> [mailto:m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Cuero Bugot
>>> Sent: March-06-13 9:42 AM
>>> To: m2m Industry Working Group (m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:
>>> m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx>)
>>> Subject: [m2m-iwg] M3DA presentation
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> It has been discussed on this list a couple of weeks ago. We'd like to
>>> do a quick presentation on the M3DA protocol that we are proposing in the
>>> Mihini project context.
>>> If you are interested we could add it to the next weekly  call agenda.
>>>
>>> This would be the occasion to cover M3DA basics, and have an open
>>> discussion and comparison with other existing protocols, specifically the
>>> ones available in this working group.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Cuero
>>>
>>> Cuero Bugot  ::   Embedded R&D Manager
>>>
>>> SIERRA WIRELESS  ::  AirLink Business Unit
>>> Main  +33 (0)5 61 00 52 90  ::  Direct  +33 (0)5 61 00 06 53 ::  Mobile
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>>> (0)5 61 00 51 46
>>> Lake Park - Zac de l'Hers - All?e du Lac - BP 87216  ::  31672 Lab?ge
>>> Cedex, France
>>>
>>> cbugot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cbugot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> ::
>>> www.sierrawireless.com<http://www.sierrawireless.com/>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________________________________
>>>
>>> This message and any attachments (the "Message") are confidential and
>>> intended solely
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 17:54:59 +0000
From: Rick Bullotta <rick.bullotta@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: m2m Industry Working Group <m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [m2m-iwg] M3DA presentation - Security
Message-ID:
        <C7D31C647F791B439B6E65E10053D5370D982101@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi, Matteo.

I'm quite familiar with OAuth - we use it quite often to authenticate against backend apps and data sources, but I don't think it is the appropriate on-device authentication mechanism or even the right technique for device -> cloud.  It is better suited towards authentication on a "sensor cloud" or other intermediate server that exposes the device data/capabilities.  Perhaps there are some scenarios where OAuth could be used in an on-site gateway to provide access to other users/apps, but in general, OAuth is a fairly poor choice for securing M2M applications due to the lack of granular ACLs.  It tends to be used for "all or nothing" access control.   M2M applications require a far more granular security model, including read/write access at an individual sensor/actuator level.  That would quickly become totally unmanageable using OAuth.

I think it is important to avoid falling into the trap of universally leveraging technologies that were designed for social apps (which are very "non mission critical") for applications in the M2M space.

Rick


From: m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Matteo Collina
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 1:45 PM
To: m2m Industry Working Group
Subject: Re: [m2m-iwg] M3DA presentation - Security

Rick,

OAuth is also a mean for authorizing identified clients to communicate with a server.
Upon that identification, the client might want to access some User resources.
The key it that's optional and application-dependent, e.g. on twitter there is no need
to authenticating users for making a search (https://dev.twitter.com/docs/api/1/get/search).

I think that if there is the User involved, then OAuth is clearly the way to go for securing the communications.

Cheers,

Matteo

2013/3/11 Rick Bullotta <rick.bullotta@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:rick.bullotta@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Oauth is primarily used as a permission proxy for an application accessing another application on behalf of a user. I think it is generally overly complex for many M2M device level scenarios.

On Mar 11, 2013, at 6:02 AM, "UOMo" <uomo@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:uomo@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Cuero/all,

Thanks for the information. I looked mainly at the security document for now. Having reviewed and commented other aspects earlier.
One question is, why the de facto standard OAuth 2 can't also be used for authentication here? It is a mechanism for API calls, not every call e.g. some of those infamous Twitter "bots" and similar services make are by a human actor either. And yet they use the same auth protocols and mechanisms there.

In fact, the AirLink team and product families are mentioned together with OAuth and M2M a lot, too, so it's not like Sierra or AirLink would not use it.
Aside from that, in the documentation of the current approach, username/password is presented as the only option. At the current (transport, smart container) client we have numerous cases, where SSH keys are preferred over exchanging username/password, even if those should be hashed or encrypted, there's always a risk of sniffing or tampering. At least the additional option of such keys should be offered.

Where devices allow, e.g. if they use a SIM card, Java Card or similar secure element, this Secure Element could also further improve security and Trust of M2M communications. When do you plan to add any of that?

Regards,
Werner

On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 6:00 PM, <m2m-iwg-request@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:m2m-iwg-request@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Send m2m-iwg mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: M3DA presentation (Ian Skerrett)
   2. Re: M3DA presentation (Cuero Bugot)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 09:56:44 -0500
From: "Ian Skerrett" <ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
To: "'m2m Industry Working Group'" <m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: Re: [m2m-iwg] M3DA presentation
Message-ID: <01a801ce1a7a$d1dc2180$75946480$@eclipse.org<http://eclipse.org>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I think this would be a great idea.  I have definitely interested. Do you
have a link to M3DA information?



From: m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>] On
Behalf Of Cuero Bugot
Sent: March-06-13 9:42 AM
To: m2m Industry Working Group (m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx>)
Subject: [m2m-iwg] M3DA presentation



Hi All,



It has been discussed on this list a couple of weeks ago. We?d like to do a
quick presentation on the M3DA protocol that we are proposing in the Mihini
project context.

If you are interested we could add it to the next weekly  call agenda.



This would be the occasion to cover M3DA basics, and have an open discussion
and comparison with other existing protocols, specifically the ones
available in this working group.



Regards,

Cuero



Cuero Bugot  ::   Embedded R&D Manager



SIERRA WIRELESS  ::  AirLink Business Unit

Main  +33 (0)5 61 00 52 90<tel:%2B33%20%280%295%2061%2000%2052%2090>  ::  Direct  +33 (0)5 61 00 06 53<tel:%2B33%20%280%295%2061%2000%2006%2053> ::  Mobile  +33
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Lake Park - Zac de l'Hers - All?e du Lac - BP 87216  ::  31672 Lab?ge Cedex,
France



 <mailto:cbugot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cbugot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> cbugot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cbugot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> ::
<http://www.sierrawireless.com/> www.sierrawireless.com<http://www.sierrawireless.com>

__________________________________________________________________________



This message and any attachments (the "Message") are confidential and
intended solely

for the addressees. Any unauthorized modification, edition, use or
dissemination is prohibited.

Neither Sierra Wireless nor any of its subsidiaries shall be liable for the
Message if altered,

changed, falsified or edited, diffused without authorization.



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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 07:14:32 -0800
From: Cuero Bugot <cbugot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cbugot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
To: m2m Industry Working Group <m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: Re: [m2m-iwg] M3DA presentation
Message-ID:
        <9287D1909D3EEA4E92505D48604887E95E23C2D251@carmd-exchmb01.sierrawireless.local<mailto:9287D1909D3EEA4E92505D48604887E95E23C2D251@carmd-exchmb01.sierrawireless.local>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Sorry I did not mention that a presentation was attached. And more importantly here is the link to the actual specification: http://wiki.eclipse.org/Mihini/M3DA_Specification

Thanks for catching this.

Cuero

De : m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>] De la part de Ian Skerrett
Envoy? : mercredi 6 mars 2013 15:57
? : 'm2m Industry Working Group'
Objet : Re: [m2m-iwg] M3DA presentation

I think this would be a great idea.  I have definitely interested. Do you have a link to M3DA information?

From: m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx><mailto:m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>> [mailto:m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of Cuero Bugot
Sent: March-06-13 9:42 AM
To: m2m Industry Working Group (m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx><mailto:m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx>>)
Subject: [m2m-iwg] M3DA presentation

Hi All,

It has been discussed on this list a couple of weeks ago. We'd like to do a quick presentation on the M3DA protocol that we are proposing in the Mihini project context.
If you are interested we could add it to the next weekly  call agenda.

This would be the occasion to cover M3DA basics, and have an open discussion and comparison with other existing protocols, specifically the ones available in this working group.

Regards,
Cuero

Cuero Bugot  ::   Embedded R&D Manager

SIERRA WIRELESS  ::  AirLink Business Unit
Main  +33 (0)5 61 00 52 90<tel:%2B33%20%280%295%2061%2000%2052%2090>  ::  Direct  +33 (0)5 61 00 06 53<tel:%2B33%20%280%295%2061%2000%2006%2053> ::  Mobile  +33 (0)7 61 79 01 45<tel:%2B33%20%280%297%2061%2079%2001%2045> ::  Fax  +33 (0)5 61 00 51 46<tel:%2B33%20%280%295%2061%2000%2051%2046>
Lake Park - Zac de l'Hers - All?e du Lac - BP 87216  ::  31672 Lab?ge Cedex, France

cbugot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cbugot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx><mailto:cbugot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:cbugot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> :: www.sierrawireless.com<http://www.sierrawireless.com><http://www.sierrawireless.com/>
__________________________________________________________________________

This message and any attachments (the "Message") are confidential and intended solely
for the addressees. Any unauthorized modification, edition, use or dissemination is prohibited.
Neither Sierra Wireless nor any of its subsidiaries shall be liable for the Message if altered,
changed, falsified or edited, diffused without authorization.

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