Re: [m2m-iwg] m2m-iwg Digest, Vol 1, Issue 17

["Werner Keil" <werner.keil@xxxxxxx>]

Andy,

Thanks a lot for sharing the article.
A lot of interesting links and information. With the MQ background you also 
may be involved in or at least informed about JMS 2.0 at JCP?

Now that MQTT was made available by IBM, I wonder what long established M2M 
and IoT portals like Pachube think about it?
So far its API (see http://api.pachube.com/v2/) uses HTTP, but instead of 
Web Services, or XML (though that's one option for some cases) mostly relies 
on the compact protocols like JSON already used by many Social Networks on a 
variety of target platforms including Mobile.

An Eclipse project previously archived, TPTP was presented by its new 
caretaker Verit at Eclipse DemoCamp Kaiserslautern last week.
Worth mentioning here, because what they demonstrated are use cases for TPTP 
that are far more on a service or message level (they did a live demo of a 
test for a distributed chat service in the Cloud) then other projects like 
Jubula or RAT from all I know about them. Thus, for Test Driven M2M there 
could be interesting synergies between the M2M projects already existing or 
still proposed and TPTP.

Werner

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <m2m-iwg-request@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 6:00 PM
Subject: m2m-iwg Digest, Vol 1, Issue 17


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>   1. Re: m2m-iwg Digest, Vol 1, Issue 13 (andypiperuk@xxxxxxxxx)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 19:21:32 +0000
> From: "andypiperuk@xxxxxxxxx" <andypiperuk@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [m2m-iwg] m2m-iwg Digest, Vol 1, Issue 13
> Message-ID:
> <CAC2T6VB020=af4fFUGRCJQFK5T9y61E=+vYpaD4bup7u3hkqBg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi
>
> My first post, too - about time I got this sorted out - sorry... Gmail
> was helpfully hiding all the list email in a label I didn't notice...
> now fixed!
>
> Thanks for the comments, JB, and welcome. I tend to agree that some of
> the phrasing in the three part article was not entirely helpful or
> clear either, I spent about an hour on the phone with the writer and
> topics like security and topologies / basic TCP/IP were dominant so it
> may not have ended up with the strongest content from the perspective
> of beginners.
>
> > The comparison to http didn't make a lot of sense,
>
> I've spoken about this before, and it can be a source of contention!
> At a high level I only speak about MQTT compared to HTTP to point out
> the relative widespread use and availability of HTTP but its
> relatively poor fit to the M2M / sensor feed space as a verbose and
> unreliable synchronous protocol. I realise that it is not a direct
> comparison anyway in terms of the purpose of the protocol. Take a look
> at the video and slides from my talk at the PubSub Huddle for more on
> this http://mqtt.org/2011/09/pubsub-huddle or you could try the talk I
> gave at LinuxConf Australia back in January
> http://lanyrd.com/2011/linuxconfau/scght/
>
> > I was hoping this article would provide a "theory of operation" for MQTT,
> > which I found lacking in the spec. What is the expected use of the 
> > protocol?
>
> Hopefully the talks about give some context there. It's well-suited to
> drip-feeds of data or small commands between devices, typically
> headless or non-UI type sensors and embedded systems - but it can also
> be very effective in mobile scenarios due to low bandwidth, memory,
> CPU and battery costs.
>
> > The article says "it was not designed for messaging but facebook is
> > experimenting".  Great - so what WAS it designed for? Unfortunately this
> > article did not help. Any pointers there?
>
> Yes, that statement was extremely confusing. I believe I actually said
> that it was not designed to be a replacement / competitor to an
> enterprise messaging model like JMS, WebSphere MQ etc etc. And he then
> conflated that with Facebook Messenger as an application.
>
> It was designed originally for industrial SCADA-type systems, sensors
> and embedded systems, back in 1999 in the days of GPRS, low bandwidth
> satellite links and dial-up where bandwidth was at a premium and
> connections were often lossy. It's an effective, simple,
> publish-and-subscribe messaging model which works really well in those
> environments and also scales to larger systems very effectively, but
> the engineering principle remains that the API should be simple, and
> the messages should be as small and efficient as possible.
>
> I hope that answers some of the questions - I very much hope we can
> get some more background information on mqtt.org soon, and I'd also
> like to get some nice introductory tutorial materials ready as the
> code hits the Paho repository.
>
> Apologies for any confusion - I didn't have final editorial control
> over the articles from RWW but I'm happy to clarify where I can!
>
> Andy
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 17:00,  <m2m-iwg-request@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Send m2m-iwg mailing list submissions to
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> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > ? ? ? ?m2m-iwg-request@xxxxxxxxxxx
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> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of m2m-iwg digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > ? 1. RWW article (Joseph Biron)
> > ? 2. Re: RWW article (Mike Milinkovich)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 06:43:53 -0600
> > From: Joseph Biron <jbiron@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: "m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx" <m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: [m2m-iwg] RWW article
> > Message-ID: <CAF253FA.1C195%jbiron@xxxxxxxxx>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> >
> > Hello all, I am new to this list. First post.
> >
> > What do you all think about this RWW article
> >
> > http://www.readwriteweb.com/hack/2011/11/ibms-andy-piper-negotiating-th.php
> >
> > I actually found many of the statements in the article strangely phrased, 
> > or not entirely logical. The comparison to http didn't make a lot of 
> > sense, strange comment about intelligence vs. autonomy, etc. I'm 
> > wondering if the reporter mixed up some of Andy Piper's comments.
> >
> > I was hoping this article would provide a "theory of operation" for MQTT, 
> > which I found lacking in the spec. What is the expected use of the 
> > protocol? The article says "it was not designed for messaging but 
> > facebook is experimenting". ?Great ? so what WAS it designed for? 
> > Unfortunately this article did not help. Any pointers there?
> >
> > P.S. Is this the only mailing list related to M2M on eclipse? This one is 
> > for the working group, but is there another more specific list for Paho 
> > and Koneki?
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > JB
> >
> > ___________________________________________
> > Joseph Biron (Axeda Corporation) {
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?title: Sr Director, Product Innovation,
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?contact: [508.446.5439 , 
> > jbiron@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:jbiron@xxxxxxxxx>],
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?web: [www.axeda.com<http://www.axeda.com/>, 
> > developer.axeda.com<http://developer.axeda.com/>, 
> > @bironology<http://twitter.com/bironology>]
> > }
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: 
> > <http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/private/m2m-iwg/attachments/20111123/c4529818/attachment.htm>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 07:51:11 -0500
> > From: "Mike Milinkovich" <mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: "'m2m Industry Working Group'" <m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: Re: [m2m-iwg] RWW article
> > Message-ID: <00e801cca9de$93fa73c0$bbef5b40$@eclipse.org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Joe,
> >
> >
> >
> > Welcome!
> >
> >
> >
> > Not sure if you've seen it, but Andy Piper's blog post, and the links
> > included at the end might provide some assistance.
> >
> > http://andypiper.co.uk/2011/11/04/mqtt-goes-free-a-personal-qa/
> >
> >
> >
> > I will let Andy and others more qualified comment on the RWW article.
> >
> >
> >
> > There are project-specific mailing lists and forums.
> >
> >
> >
> > Koneki:
> >
> > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/koneki-dev
> >
> > http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php/f/221/
> >
> >
> >
> > Paho is still in the project proposal phase, so it's lists and forums 
> > have
> > not yet been set up.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:m2m-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
> > Behalf Of Joseph Biron
> > Sent: November-23-11 7:44 AM
> > To: m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [m2m-iwg] RWW article
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello all, I am new to this list. First post.
> >
> >
> >
> > What do you all think about this RWW article
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.readwriteweb.com/hack/2011/11/ibms-andy-piper-negotiating-th.php
> >
> >
> >
> > I actually found many of the statements in the article strangely phrased, 
> > or
> > not entirely logical. The comparison to http didn't make a lot of sense,
> > strange comment about intelligence vs. autonomy, etc. I'm wondering if 
> > the
> > reporter mixed up some of Andy Piper's comments.
> >
> >
> >
> > I was hoping this article would provide a "theory of operation" for MQTT,
> > which I found lacking in the spec. What is the expected use of the 
> > protocol?
> > The article says "it was not designed for messaging but facebook is
> > experimenting". ?Great - so what WAS it designed for? Unfortunately this
> > article did not help. Any pointers there?
> >
> >
> >
> > P.S. Is this the only mailing list related to M2M on eclipse? This one is
> > for the working group, but is there another more specific list for Paho 
> > and
> > Koneki?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > JB
> >
> >
> >
> > ___________________________________________
> >
> > Joseph Biron (Axeda Corporation) {
> >
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?title: Sr Director, Product Innovation,
> >
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?contact: [508.446.5439 , jbiron@xxxxxxxxx],
> >
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?web: [www.axeda.com <http://www.axeda.com/> ,
> > <http://developer.axeda.com/> developer.axeda.com,
> > <http://twitter.com/bironology> @bironology]
> >
> > }
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > m2m-iwg mailing list
> > m2m-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx
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> >
> > End of m2m-iwg Digest, Vol 1, Issue 13
> > **************************************
>
>
>
> --
> Andy Piper | Farnborough, Hampshire (UK)
> blog: http://andypiper.co.uk ? | ? skype: andypiperuk
> twitter: @andypiper ?| ?images: http://www.flickr.com/photos/andypiper
>
>
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>
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> End of m2m-iwg Digest, Vol 1, Issue 17
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