Re: [eclipse-pmc] removal of navigator view

[Lars Vogel <lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Jonah,

today in the PMC we discussed the removal of the navigator view and
decided that the removal is not reverted. Main reasons were that it
was planned for a longer time and that the platform needs to be able
to clean up API and functionality to be able to evolve. Also project
explorer and package explorer provide very similar functionality

Best regards, Lars

On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 10:59 AM Lars Vogel <lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> I agree with Alex.
>
> The platform team is currently busy with fundamentals like publishing
> test results in our daily build or getting green verification builds
> for pull requests. Reverting a planned API deletion which was
> originally planned for 2022-06 feels out of place for the project.
>
> On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 9:48 AM Aleksandar Kurtakov <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 10:19 AM Lars Vogel <lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks Jonah. We will discuss in our next PMC meeting.
> >
> >
> > I am going on vacation and won't be able to join this call but here is my statement and vote:
> >
> > Deprecations are there for a reason and the platform starts to collapse under its own weight with diminishing resources. If one of the most active developers can't figure out which is what between the huge number of obsolete options. This removal has been done according to all rules in the deprecation policy and my recommendation to the "larger community" is to adjust expectations.
> > So I stand behind this removal with a ***firm vote*** and believe this is the only way forward for the Platform project.
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 8:04 AM Aleksandar Kurtakov <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 12:17 AM Jonah Graham <jonah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi PMC,
> >> >>
> >> >> I want to raise a concern I have about the removal process as it is currently being done. In the last few weeks the navigator view has been removed from the main branch.
> >> >>
> >> >> On the removal issue there were some objections raised by committers. When this code was first marked for deletion there were lots of concerns raised (Comments on Bug 549953, Bug 550379, the mailing lists, cross-project-issues-dev and eclipse-pmc). At the time the acceptance seems to have been obtained with "If we mark the view for deletion it does not mean that we will delete it. It just means that in two years we have the option." as quoted from the bug, which seems to mirror the discussion in the PMC at the August 20, 2019 meeting.
> >> >>
> >> >> However, now that the deletion is happening, it seems that the "option" is being exercised without any further substantial discussion. There was talk of a vote ("Let's see what the majority vote would be."),
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > For the record, I waited for more people to give their -1 on the issue but it stayed with this single -1.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> but the current deletion seems to rest on it being approved in the past ("such concerns should be raised when something is deprecated for removal not when it's actually being removed."), which I show above the concerns were raised.
> >> >>
> >> >> Following the Committer disagreement resolution I am bringing this to the PMC because the PLs of Eclipse Platform have weighed in on the issue already.
> >> >>
> >> >> If there are some other discussions that I have missed that already resolved the above concerns, I apologize for wasting your time, but I would appreciate a pointer to them.
> >> >>
> >> >> ---
> >> >>
> >> >> The above focussed on process, there is the technical discussion and community expectations to consider as well. There are lots of bits in Eclipse that have been marked deprecated for years, the reality is that the larger community doesn't take these to mean these items will actually be removed.
> >> >>
> >> >> Jonah
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ~~~
> >> >> Jonah Graham (he/him)
> >> >> Kichwa Coders
> >> >> www.kichwacoders.com
> >> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> >> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Aleksandar Kurtakov
> >> > Red Hat Eclipse Team
> >> > _______________________________________________
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> >> > eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Eclipse Platform project co-lead
> >> CEO vogella GmbH
> >>
> >> Haindaalwisch 17a, 22395 Hamburg
> >> Amtsgericht Hamburg: HRB 127058
> >> Geschäftsführer: Lars Vogel, Jennifer Nerlich de Vogel
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> >> Fax (040) 5247 6322, Email: lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx, Web: http://www.vogella.com
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Aleksandar Kurtakov
> > Red Hat Eclipse Team
> > _______________________________________________
> > eclipse-pmc mailing list
> > eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>
>
>
> --
> Eclipse Platform project co-lead
> CEO vogella GmbH
>
> Haindaalwisch 17a, 22395 Hamburg
> Amtsgericht Hamburg: HRB 127058
> Geschäftsführer: Lars Vogel, Jennifer Nerlich de Vogel
> USt-IdNr.: DE284122352
> Fax (040) 5247 6322, Email: lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx, Web: http://www.vogella.com



-- 
Eclipse Platform project co-lead
CEO vogella GmbH

Haindaalwisch 17a, 22395 Hamburg
Amtsgericht Hamburg: HRB 127058
Geschäftsführer: Lars Vogel, Jennifer Nerlich de Vogel
USt-IdNr.: DE284122352
Fax (040) 5247 6322, Email: lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx, Web: http://www.vogella.com