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RE: [eclipse-dev] What's happening after 2.1?
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It could be nice to have a C# support in eclipse, but the following
questions arise (I hope I don't repeat some old arguments):
* Should it be developed as a part of Eclipse or maybe its more
appropriate for IBM or any other
company to do it (and charge for it)?
* Can C# plugin be as good as the JDT? I really appreciate the work done
to create the C/C++ plugin, but IMHO
Java support in eclipse is better than C/C++ support. And today,
Visual Studio is considered to be the best
C/C++ development tool on Windows.
* What is the target "audience"? I think most people (who I know) use
VS.NET to build GUI *fast*. Today
eclipse does not even have a java GUI builder. I don't think C#
support in eclipse will be attractive enough for
enough people to use it.
* I'm not familiar enough with the internals of the .NET framework, but
people may need to buy some kind of "development kit"
from Microsoft in order to develop C# programs in Eclipse. In such
case, why shouldn't they buy the whole IDE (or Microsoft
will just sell it as a single package) ?
I think C# support should be developed as a separate plugin (CDT?
WSAD?), and if it proves to be good, it can be integrated into Eclipse.
Genady
> -----Original Message-----
> From: eclipse-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:eclipse-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Hugh Spinks
> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 11:05 AM
> To: eclipse-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [eclipse-dev] What's happening after 2.1?
>
>
> I realize that the suggestion may seem heretical to some Eclipse
> developers/users or Java "purists", but there seems to be
> growing demand for
> an alternative to VS.NET, and I for one have been searching
> for a way to use
> Eclipse as a VS.NET development environment; I can't think of a better
> platform for any development right now.
>
> I hope it's not inappropriate to inject this line of thought into the
> discussion, but the initial question "opened the door". Let
> me know if this
> should continue in another forum.
>
> I have included an Eclipse newsgroup message that I found
> today that I
> believe is characteristic of the thinking about a VS.NET
> alternative, and
> hints at nascent activity that might be worth investigating.
> There is also
> an open source product, SharpDevelop
> (http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/Default.aspx), that
> provides a
> pretty complete VS.NET-like IDE, but it's written in C#. Too
> bad all that
> development effort didn't go toward using the Eclipse platform.
>
> I've developed software for over 26 years and Eclipse is the best
> environment I've used yet (with Smalltalk a close second,
> IMHO). The fact
> that it is based upon a platform that was designed from the
> get-go to be a
> "universal" development platform, begs for this kind of
> project. Of course
> this borders on a religious issue...
>
> Earlier message from the "eclipse.tools" newsgroup:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stefan Matthias Aust" <sma@xxxxxxxxx>
> Newsgroups: eclipse.tools
> Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 6:25 PM
> Subject: C# plug-in (was: Re: There is a very high demand for
> a JSP editor
> to be included in Eclipse Project. Here are the statistics.)
>
>
> > Jon Skeet wrote:
> >
> > > On that front, I for one would welcome a C# plugin before
> a JSP plugin
> > > (being an occasional C# developer and not a JSP developer
> :) Visual
> > > Studio .NET lacks various things which I love about
> Eclipse. C# itself
> > > is a pretty nice language, and having the same kind of
> support for it
> > > in Eclipse that Java has would be wonderful.
> >
> > I'd like to second that. Eclipse's powerful features make Java
> > manageable and I'd really like to get a C#DT plug-in with the same
> > functionality: incremental compiling, refactoring, searching for
> > referecnes, etc. And of course, not only support .NET on
> Windows but
> > also mono/pnet on Linux and other platforms.
> >
> > > I know it's very unlikely to happen, but if anyone is
> having serious
> > > thoughts about making it happen
> >
> > Why? Actually, it shouldn't be that difficult,
> technically. You'd need
> > a different compiler but once you got an AST, most of the Java stuff
> > (the internal models) should work for C#, too. Sure,
> special support
> > for delegates, structs and other C#-specific language features is
> > needed, but I think, the degree of reuse is quite high.
> >
> > Politically, I don't know, however, Eclipse should be an
> IDE for more
> > than Java, shouldn't it. Interestingly, a few weeks ago, some IBM
> > marketeer even advertized the Eclipse project on the mono
> mailing list
> > and asked whether somebody would be interested in doing somehting C#
> > related for Eclipse...
> >
> > > , I'd be willing to help.
> >
> > I'd at least love to test everything that would be available :-)
> >
> >
> > bye
> > --
> > Stefan Matthias Aust //
> > www.3plus4software.de // Inter Deum Et Diabolum Semper Musica Est
> >
>
>
> Hugh Spinks
> Sanford, NC
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Wathen" <dave.wathen@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <eclipse-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 1:58 AM
> Subject: RE: [eclipse-dev] What's happening after 2.1?
>
>
> > I wasn't actually suggesting C#/.NET support but why not? With
> > a C# scanner/parser and a .NET code generation engine running
> > off the same internal representation as the Java compiler you'd
> > not only get C# support but be able to develop Java to run on
> > .NET and C# to run on a JVM too.
> >
> > Dave Wathen
> > Phone: +44 (0)20 8660 5171
> > Mobile: +44 (0)7968 167934
> > Fax: +44 (0)870 051 7664
> > http://www.canzonet.com
> > mailto:dave.wathen@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Wathen" <dave.wathen@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <eclipse-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 1:58 AM
> Subject: RE: [eclipse-dev] What's happening after 2.1?
>
>
> > I wasn't actually suggesting C#/.NET support but why not? With
> > a C# scanner/parser and a .NET code generation engine running
> > off the same internal representation as the Java compiler you'd
> > not only get C# support but be able to develop Java to run on
> > .NET and C# to run on a JVM too.
> >
> > Dave Wathen
> > Phone: +44 (0)20 8660 5171
> > Mobile: +44 (0)7968 167934
> > Fax: +44 (0)870 051 7664
> > http://www.canzonet.com
> > mailto:dave.wathen@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: eclipse-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:eclipse-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Hugh Spinks
> > Sent: 23 April 2003 00:59
> > To: eclipse-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [eclipse-dev] What's happening after 2.1?
> >
> >
> > I'm desperate to see .NET/C# support. VS.NET absolutely
> sucks, especially
> > compared to Eclipse, but the .NET Framework is neat and if you're
> developing
> > Windows products...I know, I know...
> >
> > Hugh Spinks
> > Sanford, NC
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dave Wathen" <dave.wathen@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <eclipse-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 6:37 PM
> > Subject: RE: [eclipse-dev] What's happening after 2.1?
> >
> >
> > > If the suggestion is to get more ambitious I'd like to
> see the work on
> > > the 'Extended Java Family' extended towards support for generative
> > > programming. By restructuring the compiler it should be
> possible to
> > > allow people to take greater advantage of it. For
> instance the code
> > > generation back end could be reusable with different
> scanner/parsers
> > > generating ASTs from which .class files are generated.
> More ambitiously
> > > the scanner could be opened up to support extended
> syntaxes and language
> > > embedding.
> > >
> > > I've attached a small document that outlines these ideas.
> I can't see
> > > myself having the time to develop these ideas any further
> in the near
> > > future.
> > >
> > > Regarding the compatibility issues, could this be
> addressed - or at
> least
> > > mitigated - by producing adapter plugins that would allow
> 2.1 plugins
> > > to continue working. This would fatten the footprint but
> could be an
> > > acceptable interim solution until plugin providers are
> able to migrate.
> > >
> > > Dave Wathen
> > > Phone: +44 (0)20 8660 5171
> > > Mobile: +44 (0)7968 167934
> > > Fax: +44 (0)870 051 7664
> > > http://www.canzonet.com
> > > mailto:dave.wathen@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: eclipse-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:eclipse-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Kevin Haaland
> > > Sent: 22 April 2003 21:10
> > > To: eclipse-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [eclipse-dev] What's happening after 2.1?
> > >
> > >
> > > Late last year we posted an initial draft 2.2 plan which
> we were viewing
> > > as an incremental improvement over Eclipse 2.1. Now that
> we've started
> > > work on 2.2, we feel we should be setting even more
> ambitious goals for
> > > the next major release.
> > >
> > > We've put together a rough outline of what we'd like to
> tackle in this
> > > next release of Eclipse:
> > >
> >
> http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/%7Echeckout%7E/eclips
e-project-home
> > /plans/eclipse_after_2_1.html
> >
> > We'd appreciate community feedback to help us in firming up the next
> > revision of the development plan.
> >
> > Please send your comments to the eclipse-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx developer
mailing
> > list.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > eclipse-dev mailing list
> > eclipse-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-dev
> >
>
>
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