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RE: AW: [e4-dev] Why XML UI is important for us
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> I'm following very interested the discussion about UI on this list but I
don't understand the difference in quality about the declaration language
of a UI. To me it's absolutely irrelevant > if I declare a label with
> new Label(...
> or with
> <label text="..."
> That's syntactic sugar.
For me, the difference is fundamental.
The "new Label(..." is computer programming language (in this case Java)
dependent and computer programming language declaration.
And the "<label text="..." is declarative fonctional declaration which is
independent of computer programming language.
We can analyse the "<label text="..." very easily with others computer
language like C++, C" or JavaScript etc.) and it isn't the case of ""new
Label(...".
On conclusion, the "<label text="..." is more universal et declarative than
the "new Label(..."
Kaiping FANG
Responsable Architecture des systèmes d’Information
Systems Architecture Manager
CCR
31, rue de Courcelles
75008 PARIS – France
Tél : +33 (0) 1 44 35 38 01
Fax : +33 (0) 1 44 13 77 36
Mobile : +33 (0) 6 71 29 95 75
E-mail : kfang@xxxxxx
www.ccr.fr
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|"Tom Seidel" <tom.seidel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> |
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|"'E4 Project developer mailing list'" <e4-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> |
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| Date: |
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|09/10/2009 13:47 |
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|AW: [e4-dev] Why XML UI is important for us |
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|e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx |
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I'm following very interested the discussion about UI on this list but I
don't understand the difference in quality about the declaration language
of a UI. To me it's absolutely irrelevant if I declare a label with
new Label(...
or with
<label text="..."
That's syntactic sugar.
Your issues with developing UIs (Skill, Guideline,...) will not be resolved
by switching to a xml declared UI, they will be just moved.
The fact that people are more familiar with XML than with EMF/SWT/whatever
makes no sense, you also have to "learn" how to declare an UI in XML.
The problems in UI development is IMHO not the declaration syntax but the
separation of UI and the business domain. From my experience (I'm working
as architect also for insurance, authority,...) the best way to improve
quality of UIs is an enforced architecture to separate UI declaration
(regardless of which technology) and binding the UI to a domain model. But
this is an issue in architecture, not in technology. If you separate these
two things you will resolve most of your problems. Your lower skilled
developers (whatever this means) can use GUI-Designer-Tools to create the
UI satisfying the guidelines without knowing anything about the
business-code. Then your application developers can bind the model to the
designed ui (with APIs like Riena or Databinding).
Like I said, the challenges in UI development is not the UI itself, but the
integration into an application and the binding to a domain model.
Therefore Eclipse already provides very good frameworks and APIs. Take a
look at Riena; its mission is (among other things) to provide a framework
for building such applications.
The fact that EMF is IMHO a better choice for a declarative UI is diverse
(many advantages were already mentioned).
Take a look at the tools that are built upon EMF and compare them with
tools for raw XML editing. I think everybody has already searched for a
typo within a xml file. Creating new tools for EMF Models is also much
simpler than for a xml block (which is also essential for e4-tooling).
The next thing is that XML serialization is just another feature of EMF.
Everything you have declared in a XML file can be represented in an EMF
Model, so the discussion itself makes no sense due to the fact that XML is
a subset of EMF.
The assumption that XML is better for simple cases I cannot confirm from my
experience, also with development-teams that have no EMF experience it
makes no big difference.
Last but not least I still have a feedback for the current e4: Development
with e4 is a great new experience. Great work :)
Best Regards,
Tom Seidel
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im
Auftrag von kfang@xxxxxx
Gesendet: Freitag, 9. Oktober 2009 12:10
An: E4 Project developer mailing list
Betreff: Re: [e4-dev] Why XML UI is important for us
hal@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> In my experience with XSWT (similar to XWT) and the EMF-based TM, XML
> is simple for simple cases, but very complex when the problem grows,
> while EMF is slightly more complex for the simple cases, but scales
> very well with increasing complexity.
In our insurance application developpment avec 1500 UI forms, we hava 90 %
of simple case and 10 % of complex case in UI developement.
We perfer the simplicity of XWT than the EMF based approch because there
isn't enough good skilled java developers in my team who can master EMF
approch.
You have to know that the skill of programming of application developers is
very limited. But, they know very well the fonctionality of the
applications.
So, the simplicity is one "must" for us.
Kaiping FANG
Systems Architecture Manager
CCR
31, rue de Courcelles
75008 PARIS – France
Tél : +33 (0) 1 44 35 38 01
Fax : +33 (0) 1 44 13 77 36
Mobile : +33 (0) 6 71 29 95 75
E-mail : kfang@xxxxxx
www.ccr.fr
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