Historically we have never distributed
Microsoft-licensed technology. We have always assumed that it was previously
installed. (e.g. Windows)
I don't know if that is applicable in this case, but
that's the history to date as I know it.
If there was a piece of MS code that really needed to
be distributed, we would be at least willing to investigate it. We have
distributed some Sun stuff in the past under somewhat similar
circumstances.
It’s their EULA, but
I remember it saying something negative about open source. But, as always, I’m
not a lawyer J. The point is
probably mute anyway since I don’t think Microsoft would be overly interested
in participating in an Eclipse IP review. But it is another example which is
probably similar to Nokia’s.
From: dsdp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:dsdp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Gaff, Doug Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:50
PM To: DSDP PMC list;
mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx Cc: Bjorn Freeman-Benson Subject: RE: [dsdp-pmc] Code
contribution
Ahhh. I
didn’t even think about the Microsoft redistributable components. Good
question. What’s the license on that?
From: dsdp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:dsdp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Doug Schaefer Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:47
PM To: DSDP PMC list;
mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx Cc: Bjorn Freeman-Benson Subject: RE: [dsdp-pmc] Code
contribution
Interesting
discussion. From reading the BSD-license, which is pretty short, it does not
seem to require the redistribution of source with the binaries. It does
require that the license text be included with the binaries, though. That’s
all. The license seems to be intended to stop people from using the source
without crediting the original author while also absolving the original
authors from liability.
Of
course, I’m not a lawyer.
So is
the requirement that the Eclipse IP team needs to see the source to do the IP
check, not because we need to redistribute the
source?
Sorry,
I’m just trying to figure out what the rules are. Redistributing binaries
along with Eclipse projects is useful in other areas too (e.g. Microsoft
redist components – assuming their rules allow open source projects to redist
them)
From: dsdp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:dsdp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Gaff, Doug Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:01
PM To:
mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx; DSDP PMC list Cc: Bjorn Freeman-Benson Subject: RE: [dsdp-pmc] Code
contribution
Hi
guys,
I really like
the idea of including these binaries in MTJ, because it enables the casual
user to play with MTJ on their cell phone. That can only be good for the
project. Given this I vote +1.
However, judging
from Mike’s comments, we’re at a process impasse. Eclipse legal needs
access to the source code to verify the BSD-style license associated with the
binary. You have said that you probably can’t get the source code from
the other team that produces these binaries. Is this
correct?
I may also be
slightly confused from Mike’s last email. Mike: are projects allowed to
redistribute only binaries as long as the source code that goes with them is
freely available from another website and the license on the binary is
compatible with Eclipse? Or is the expectation that the source code will
live with the binary in CVS?
Doug
From: dsdp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:dsdp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Mike Milinkovich Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 5:10
PM To: 'DSDP PMC
list' Cc: 'Bjorn
Freeman-Benson' Subject: RE:
[dsdp-pmc] Code contribution
Martin,
These were all very
good questions. I thought I would share some of the
Eclipse "instituational memory" on these topics.
You are correct that
as an open source project it is important that any prerequisites and/or
runtimes for an Eclipse project be open source themselves. As I mentioned in a
separate email, any binaries we ship with an Eclipse project have to
themselves be open source, with available and publicly downloadable source
code and binaries.
Most Eclipse projects
follow a rule that supported runtimes must be open source themselves and
consciously leave support for commercial platforms to commercial vendors
creating value-add Eclipse-based products.
That said, there are
some proprietary platforms who are so widespread that it makes sense to
support them within the Eclipse projects. Eclipse SDK support for Windows and
Mac is one obvious example. WTP support of WebLogic and Websphere is another.
Obviously there is a judgement call to be made and I am very glad to see the
DSDP PMC consciously and diligently debating the question.
Does this
help?
From: dsdp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:dsdp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Oberhuber, Martin Sent: September 27, 2006 4:19
AM To: DSDP PMC
list Subject: RE:
[dsdp-pmc] Code contribution
Hello
Mika,
What kind of users
would you expect to use these binaries?
Can every ordinary
user get such a Nokia terminal easily, and use it for
programming?
Can ordinary users
download these libraries from some Open Nokia server right
now?
I'm wondering
whether the Open Source Eclipse Framework is the right place for such vendor
specific programs. In my understanding, the charter of the Eclipse
foundation is to create Frameworks and Exemplary tools to support vendors
creating their specific tooling.
As such, I'd rather
not expect vendor specific binaries in Open Source. There is an exception,
of course, if you think that these libraries would provide a very good
example to show ISVs how the APIs can be used in order to extend the
framework. Was that your intention?
Your license also
talks about "Source Form". Would you include the sources for your libs with
the contribution?
The license does
read similar to the EPL. Do you see a chance that Nokia would proivde these
libs under EPL?
Cheers, -- Martin Oberhuber Wind
River Systems, Inc. Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm
From: dsdp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:dsdp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
mika.hoikkala@xxxxxxxxx Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006
3:51 AM To:
dsdp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [dsdp-pmc] Code
contribution
Hi,
I would like to get your vote
to include two binaries to MTJ so that we can start due diligence
process.
Those binaries are CONA.jar
and COnnJNI.dll and they are used to connect MTJ to Nokia PC suite, which
is needed in deploying applications to Nokia terminals.
I.e. without these binaries it
is not possible to move application from Eclipse to a
terminal.
Those binaries are owned by
Nokia and copyright text is listed below.
------------------------------------------------------------------------- Copyright (c)
2005 - 2006, Nokia Corporation. All rights reserved. Redistribution
and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are
permitted provided that the following conditions are
met:
o
Redistributions
of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of
conditions and the following disclaimer.
o
Redistributions
in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of
conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other
materials provided with the distribution.
o
Neither the name
of the NOKIA nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or
promote products derived from this software without specific prior written
permission.
THIS
SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND CONTRIBUTORS "AS IS" AND
ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE
IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE
ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COPYRIGHT OWNER OR CONTRIBUTORS BE
LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR
CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF
SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS
INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN
CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE)
ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Could you please make your
vote.
mho
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