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Re: [dsdp-ercp-dev] (e)SWT on maemo
I am also not concerned that much about ROM consumption too but RAM consumption and the start-up time are the areas that needs to be considered with SWT implementation.
You are right eRCP is pure java that requires CDC level java and it is basically a matter of packaging. Also some vendors have made integration into the desktop in the past so that eRCP applications could be launched from the menus directly.
I think the eSWT implementation for win32 is the implementation to start a new port with but it is still not so much of an emulated implementation of Mobile Extensions. 
--
Gorkem



Sebastian Mancke wrote:

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Hi.

Gorkem Ercan schrieb:

Funny, I have been asked the same question when I was doing my early
eRCP prototyping on N800. By the way I have used parts of jalimo for
that proto.

Nice.


You are correct, maemo based devices tend to have more power and touch
so as a result, the full SWT implementation works. Although I still want
to run benchmarks to see that performance difference is not significant
if any. But since it is geared towards devices, we will happily make
changes in the eSWT implementation to overcome any mobile specific
perfomance problem points that may be encountered in the future.
As Mark pointed out eSWT will have a lower memory footprint because it
is a subset of the SWT and omits parts of SWT that is not absolutely
necessary for most of the mobile applications, I think memory resource
limitations is valid for maemo devices as well.

Well, the RAM consumption is an important point, whereby the footprint
"on disk" does not matter that much for me and is already ok for SWT
(~1.4M).


The real benefit of the eSWT is it enables applications that are more
usable on mobile devices. It provides controls that have input
optimization and control of input methods that is not likely to be
addressed with SWT. Also eSWT APIs allows discovery and control of
device capabilities. These are really important improvements in addition
to SWT and are constantly improved by the participation of the industry.

It will be great if jalimo at one point can include eRCP at one point (
full RCP is heavy for devices without too many benefits). eRCP will run
on standard SWT to some extend. But in order to have full compatibility
with other platforms we need eSWTs mobile extensions at least. One way
could be to have full SWT and Mobile extension but that may be heavy on
the memory usage and needs to be investigated further.

I would like to see eRCP and eSWT as part of Jalimo, if you have any
more questions/suggestions how we can further collaborate please ask.


eRCP: since this is all pure java and our runtime is mostly java 1.5
compatible, it should be a packaging issue, right. We have not made the
decision, how to handle external pure java libraries, yet. (e.g. wrap
upstream .jar files in a distribution archive, or build everything from
scratch). The best way for a jalimo integration would be to build eSWT
completely with OpenEmbedded.

Mobile extensions: This is a good point. Since all mobile platforms are
going into different directions to increase the usability (especially
maemo with hildon) it would be worth a lot to cover those benefits in
one Api. Although, I'm not sure, if this is realy a mobile issue or if
it targets desktop integration in general?
When I took a look at the mobile extensions JavaDoc, I found much
things, which would be perfectly map to the hildon desktop. But I don't
want to miss the possibility to run the same code on my Desktop. Are
there pears with a default mapping available, which map this mobile
extensions to normal (e)SWT, running on every platform? Such pears would
be a good starting point for new ports.

Regards,
  Sebastian


--
Gorkem







Sebastian Mancke wrote:
Hi,

we are featuring a project called Jalimo, which has the goal to provide
a complete free Java stack for mobile and embedded linux devices.
Currently our main targets are maemo and openmoko. See [1] for further
details.

For the GUI solution we use SWT at the moment (among others) we will
investigate more in this direction, especially to get a better desktop
integration, in the near future.

Since our target devices are powerful, and we are trying to align the
platform capabilities on the desktop, a full SWT seems to fit very well
on this. Recently I found a blog post from Gorkem [2], who has started
an eSWT/eRCP implementation. I never worked with the *e* variant. What
would be the benefits from that? Would it be possible so run the eRCP
libs together with an full blown SWT?

Regards,
  Sebastian

[1] http://www.jalimo.org
[2]
http://gorkem-ercan.blogspot.com/2007/11/ercp-running-on-n800-internet-tablet.html



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