Re: [dsdp-dd-dev] debug model requirements discussion

["Mikhail Khodjaiants" <mikhailk@xxxxxxx>]

Pawel,

> As far as your second question, do you feel that the requirements listed
> are too broad and/or too ambitious?

For me the definition of "a debug model" (not "the debug model") in this
context is an abstraction in form of API that describes a family of debugger
engines. Combined with the implementation that adapts the model into the
Eclipse debug platform it will allow clients to integrate backend debuggers
into Eclipse.
The obvious example of a debug model is the platform debug model, which
works very well for Java debuggers, but doesn't work for embedded purposes.
As you know it used to be the only debug model supported by Eclipse. Now
it's one of the possible backend models.
So, IMO we shouldn't try to come up with a universal API and make the UI
components heavily depend on it. Instead we should focus on the design of
the UI component that can work with various models. Current platform views
are good examples of what we need.
I have never been a fan of Chairman Mao, but I would like to quote him here:
"Let a hundred flowers bloom." :). I believe this expression describes the
whole Eclipse ideology very well.
These are just general thoughts on the role of a debug model in Eclipse.
Regarding the requirements, my question is how to interpret the following:
Even though many aspects of embedded debugging is unique to a given
vendor/target configuration, etc, all of these debuggers share some common
functionality found in standard debuggers (reading/writing memory, run
control, stack retrieval, expression evaluation, etc).

  a.. Debug model should define a set of public APIs to access common
debugger functionality, either by supporting existing APIs (Platform, CDI,
JDI) or defining new ones.
  b.. If new APIs are defined, the model should have the ability to support
legacy APIs: Platform, CDI, etc.
Is this is supposed to be a universal API that will replace the platform
debug model, it is too ambitious. As you know, the first attempt failed and
there is no guarantee that another attempt will not fail again.
If it is not a proposal for a universal API then it is confusing and needs a
clarification. I don't think Darrin is planning to abandon the platform API
in JDT, neither the CDT team has plans to drop CDI. Moreover, we are
considering to improve it and take advantage of the new implementation of
the debug views.

Regards,
Mikhail

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pawel Piech" <pawel.piech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Device Debugging developer discussions" <dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [dsdp-dd-dev] debug model requirements discussion


> Thank you Mikhail,
> Good point.  I guess I assumed that "Debug Model" implies the objective
> of a discussion, but it obviously doesn't.  I added an objective stated as
>
>     To define a set of APIs and a mechanism for extending these APIs to
>     allow various debugger implementations to:
>
>        1. drive content of debug views,
>        2. allow users to perform operations to change the state of the
>           debugger,
>        3. allow 3rd party tools and standard clients to interact with
>           debugger.
>
> As far as your second question, do you feel that the requirements listed
> are too broad and/or too ambitious?
>
> Cheers
> Pawel
>
> Mikhail Khodjaiants wrote:
> > Hi Pawel,
> >
> > I've had a quick look at the requirements and I think the objective
> > part is missing.
> > Reading the requirements one can get the impression that you are
> > proposing to come up with a universal API and implement debug views
> > and other UI components on the top of it. Is this correct or not?
> > In any cases, the goal should be identified from the beginning.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mikhail Khodjaiants
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pawel Piech"
> > <pawel.piech@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: "Device Debugging developer discussions" <dsdp-dd-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 2:18 PM
> > Subject: [dsdp-dd-dev] debug model requirements discussion
> >
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >> Based on the information I gathered so far, I listed the DSDP
> >> requirements for a debug model on the twiki page:
> >> http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/DSDP/DD/DebugModel
> >>
> >> I gave up on the hypothetical debugger example, or on trying to collect
> >> all the use cases to support all the requirements.  Given how in this
> >> group everyone seems to rather familiar with the problem space, it
might
> >> be easier to just come up with use cases as needed to justify specific
> >> requirements.
> >> -Pawel
> >>
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