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RE: [cosmos-dev] Rush Hour Traffic [[DON-->HAS READ THIS AGAIN!]]
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OK...
We seem to be coming to the conclusion
that we'd like to have multiple mailing lists. I will point out that
we do have COSMOS-MGMT list already.
(https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cosmos-mgmt)
The one thing that I think we should
consider with Ruth's suggestion is that we are beginning to combine our
meetings so that we are being more effective. The Arch and DC and
DV meetings have been combined into a single, albeit longer meeting. I
think we'd want to keep those discussions together. Also, we have
not mentioned the SDD work yet, which currently is going into the ME project.
One of the concerns that I have is I
don't want to have the information become to "stratified". It's
possible you'd miss something b/c it's on a different list, rather than
missing something b/c the one list is flooded. Also, in TPTP, we
sometimes saw the same message posted to multiple lists. I think
that's something we want to avoid as well.
Given that we have cosmos-mgmt, we can
start improving our work now. I think we can all agree to post meeting
notices, and other PMC like things on that list. Although I disagree
with David--I think build information should be posted on the dev list.
We can also agree to start using the caps convention that Don and
Ruth discuss. This will help get things in order. As we go
through this exercise, we'll be able to determine how to organize the next
list that we ask to be created.
-mw
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Mark Weitzel | STSM | IBM Software Group | Tivoli | Autonomic Computing
| (919) 543 0625 | weitzelm@xxxxxxxxxx
|
| RE: [cosmos-dev] Rush
Hour Traffic [[DON-->HAS READ THIS AGAIN!]] |
| Ebright, Don
| to:
| Cosmos Dev
|
02/07/08 07:44 AM |
| Sent by:
| cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx |
Please respond to Cosmos Dev <cosmos-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
|
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|
Ruth,
Your proposal sounds great as
far as my needs are concerned. It would make it easier for those
of us who are pulled in many directions to avoid neglecting the urgent
business of the project during busy periods. The COSMOS has many
full-time people who probably have an easier time keeping up, but reading
a lot of email that isn't relevant is still a waste of time that they could
use more productively.
I concur with using automation
wherever possible. Establishing separate mailing lists is a nice
automated way of tagging everything that would otherwise accumulate in
an unorganized way on cosmos-dev with minimum effort.
Your FYA was effective in attracting
my attention, and I support using it as a standard way of calling attention
to items that require quick action. I would also find it useful to
have standard tags for other urgent items like announcements to impromptu
meetings or requests for input to decisions that need to be made quickly.
This would facilitate quick triage of priority emails when it isn't
possible to take the time to read them all.
Don
From: cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ruth Lee
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 10:00 PM
To: Cosmos Dev
Subject: RE: [cosmos-dev] Rush Hour Traffic [[DON-->HAS READ THIS]]
RE: "I've been in
meetings all day and now I have 50 unread cosmos-dev emails" moments."
... yes, been there. May I suggest a "FYA" (For Your Action)
subject line to mark those items that require action or with a deadline?
That's how I tagged the "weekly integration build" announcement
identifying the time that code has to be checked in to make the weekly
integration build. Not sure if that was sufficient to grab everyone's attention?
FYI, the "tptp-pmc" mailing list was the cross-project mailing
list that I was referring to. TPTP didn't post cross-project notes to more
than one list because several developers were in more than one project
and that meant that, in some cases, people received four copies of the
same email. (Would that be considered rush hour traffic?) ;o)
Instead of forcing the COSMOS PMC-like-leaders to read build break
notifications, are you okay with keeping cosmos-dev for cross-project notifications
to non-leaders and cosmos-mgmt for notifications to leaders?
I'm not keen on tagging messages with a project name. No reason other than
style preference. I like to automate everything I can.
Revised suggestion:
newsgroup: end-user stuff (consistent with other eclipse projects)
cosmos-dev: development items common to all subprojects, such as build
break notifications
cosmos-dv: data visualization
cosmos-dc: data collection
cosmos-rm: resource monitoring
cosmos-me: management enablement
cosmos-mgmt: PMC-like notifications
Is that okay?
Ruth Lee
IBM Toronto Lab
ruthdaly@xxxxxxxxxx
T/L 313-4453
"Ebright, Don"
<Don.Ebright@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
02/06/2008 06:01 PM
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Cosmos Dev <cosmos-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> |
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Subject
| RE: [cosmos-dev] Rush Hour Traffic [[DON-->HAS
READ THIS]] |
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I think that the TPTP approach was fairly effective with one mailing list
per project and one for the PMC. This allowed developers to focus
on issues relevant to their project (or projects) without reading everything.
Project leads could prioritize reading their own project's list and
the PMC list.
I don't know if a NG vs mailing list division would be as useful. We
could probably accomplish more by splitting cosmos-dev by project or just
tagging the messages with a project name where relevant and using the cosmos-mgt
list for "PMC-like" issues. Cross-project issues could
be identified with all related projects or perhaps a special cross-project
tag. I do think that specifically marking action items or anything
with an implied deadline like a meeting invitation would be very helpful
in those "I've been in meetings all day and now I have 50 unread cosmos-dev
emails" moments.
BTW, the all-caps tagging may be more than was strictly required, but note
the quick response to this thread :)
Don
The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only.
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From: cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Julia McCarthy
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:44 PM
To: Cosmos Dev
Subject: Re: [cosmos-dev] Rush Hour Traffic [[DON-->READ THIS]]
I like the one-mailing-list-per-subgroup solution.
Julia McCarthy
julia@xxxxxxxxxx
Ruth
Lee <ruthdaly@xxxxxxxxxx>
Ruth Lee <ruthdaly@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
02/06/2008 04:00 PM
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Please respond to
Cosmos Dev <cosmos-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> |
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TPTP had a different mailing list per subproject. Developers from that
subproject would subscribe to just their subproject's list and also to
the common (i.e., common to all subprojects) list. If we use that approach
in COSMOS, we'd get something like the following:
Option 1:
newsgroup: end-user stuff (consistent with other eclipse projects)
cosmos-dev: common to all subprojects, such as build break notifications
cosmos-dv: data visualization
cosmos-dc: data collection
cosmos-rm: resource monitoring
cosmos-me: management enablement
BTW, does anyone use the cosmos-mgmt or cosmos-pmc mailing lists?
Option 2:
Alternatively, we could:
- create a separate newsgroup for technical discussions (assuming that
we're allowed more than one newsgroup)
- keep the existing newsgroup for end user stuff
- use cosmos-dev for build break notifications, announcements of candidate
drivers, and other time-sensitive information.
- use cosmos-mgmt for discussions about suggested change of processes (e.g.
the creation of a weekly integration build)
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Ruth.
Ruth Lee
IBM Toronto Lab
ruthdaly@xxxxxxxxxx
T/L 313-4453
David Whiteman <David_Whiteman@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
02/06/2008 03:16 PM
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Subject
| Re: [cosmos-dev] Rush Hour Traffic [[DON-->READ THIS]] |
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On other projects, the email lists tend to be for committer & design
discussions, and the newsgroups for user questions. Given that we don't
have an established user community, the newsgroup has been quiet. We could
move some discussion to the newsgroup, but I'm not sure how you would determine
which kind of info belongs there vs. the email list, unless it has to do
with how time-critical it is. So maybe we do design discussion on the newsgroup
and notices that everyone needs to see on the email list? We could also
look at creating multiple email lists or using subject line triggers to
help categorize the messages if we just stuck with the email list.
David
Mark wrote on 02/06/2008 03:00:30 PM:
>
> On the call today, Don indicated that the amount of traffic on the
mailing list is
> getting to the point where it's difficult to keep up.
>
> For a while, we were using the newsgroup as well as this mailing list.
That's
> tapered off, but we could try leveraging the newsgroup instead of
the mailing list
> if we think it would help reduce the traffic and make managing the
flow if
> information more manageable.
>
> Just thinking out loud....
>
> -Mark W._______________________________________________
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https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cosmos-dev
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https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cosmos-dev
_______________________________________________
cosmos-dev mailing list
cosmos-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cosmos-dev_______________________________________________
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https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cosmos-dev
