RE: [cosmos-dev] Rush Hour Traffic [[DON-->HAS READ THIS AGAIN!]]

["Ebright, Don" <Don.Ebright@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Ruth,
 
Your proposal sounds great as far as my needs are concerned.  It would
make it easier for those of us who are pulled in many directions to
avoid neglecting the urgent business of the project during busy periods.
The COSMOS has many full-time people who probably have an easier time
keeping up, but reading a lot of email that isn't relevant is still a
waste of time that they could use more productively.
 
I concur with using automation wherever possible.  Establishing separate
mailing lists is a nice automated way of tagging everything that would
otherwise accumulate in an unorganized way on cosmos-dev with minimum
effort.
 
Your FYA was effective in attracting my attention, and I support using
it as a standard way of calling attention to items that require quick
action.  I would also find it useful to have standard tags for other
urgent items like announcements to impromptu meetings or requests for
input to decisions that need to be made quickly.  This would facilitate
quick triage of priority emails when it isn't possible to take the time
to read them all.
 
Don

________________________________

From: cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ruth Lee
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 10:00 PM
To: Cosmos Dev
Subject: RE: [cosmos-dev] Rush Hour Traffic [[DON-->HAS READ THIS]]



RE:  "I've been in meetings all day and now I have 50 unread cosmos-dev
emails" moments." ... yes, been there. May I suggest a "FYA" (For Your
Action) subject line to mark those items that require action or with a
deadline? That's how I tagged the "weekly integration build"
announcement identifying the time that code has to be checked in to make
the weekly integration build. Not sure if that was sufficient to grab
everyone's attention? 

FYI, the "tptp-pmc" mailing list was the cross-project mailing list that
I was referring to. TPTP didn't post cross-project notes to more than
one list because several developers were in more than one project and
that meant that, in some cases, people received four copies of the same
email. (Would that be considered rush hour traffic?) ;o) 

Instead of forcing the COSMOS PMC-like-leaders  to read build break
notifications, are you okay with keeping cosmos-dev for cross-project
notifications to non-leaders and cosmos-mgmt for notifications to
leaders? 

I'm not keen on tagging messages with a project name. No reason other
than style preference. I like to automate everything I can. 

Revised suggestion: 
newsgroup: end-user stuff (consistent with other eclipse projects) 
cosmos-dev: development items common to all subprojects, such as build
break notifications 
cosmos-dv: data visualization 
cosmos-dc: data collection 
cosmos-rm: resource monitoring 
cosmos-me: management enablement 
cosmos-mgmt: PMC-like notifications

Is that okay?

Ruth Lee
IBM Toronto Lab
ruthdaly@xxxxxxxxxx
T/L 313-4453 



"Ebright, Don" <Don.Ebright@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
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02/06/2008 06:01 PM 
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I think that the TPTP approach was fairly effective with one mailing
list per project and one for the PMC.  This allowed developers to focus
on issues relevant to their project (or projects) without reading
everything.  Project leads could prioritize reading their own project's
list and the PMC list. 
  
I don't know if a NG vs mailing list division would be as useful.  We
could probably accomplish more by splitting cosmos-dev by project or
just tagging the messages with a project name where relevant and using
the cosmos-mgt list for "PMC-like" issues.  Cross-project issues could
be identified with all related projects or perhaps a special
cross-project tag.  I do think that specifically marking action items or
anything with an implied deadline like a meeting invitation would be
very helpful in those "I've been in meetings all day and now I have 50
unread cosmos-dev emails" moments. 
  
BTW, the all-caps tagging may be more than was strictly required, but
note the quick response to this thread :) 
  
Don 
  

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From: cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:cosmos-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Julia McCarthy
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:44 PM
To: Cosmos Dev
Subject: Re: [cosmos-dev] Rush Hour Traffic [[DON-->READ THIS]]


I like the one-mailing-list-per-subgroup solution.


Julia McCarthy
julia@xxxxxxxxxx 




 Ruth Lee <ruthdaly@xxxxxxxxxx>


Ruth Lee <ruthdaly@xxxxxxxxxx> 
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02/06/2008 04:00 PM 

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Re: [cosmos-dev] Rush Hour Traffic [[DON-->READ THIS]]

  	 




TPTP had a different mailing list per subproject. Developers from that
subproject would subscribe to just their subproject's list and also to
the common (i.e., common to all subprojects) list. If we use that
approach in COSMOS, we'd get something like the following: 

Option 1: 
newsgroup: end-user stuff (consistent with other eclipse projects) 
cosmos-dev: common to all subprojects, such as build break notifications

cosmos-dv: data visualization 
cosmos-dc: data collection 
cosmos-rm: resource monitoring 
cosmos-me: management enablement 

BTW, does anyone use the cosmos-mgmt or cosmos-pmc mailing lists? 

Option 2: 
Alternatively, we could: 
- create a separate newsgroup for technical discussions (assuming that
we're allowed more than one newsgroup) 
- keep the existing newsgroup for end user stuff 
- use cosmos-dev for build break notifications, announcements of
candidate drivers, and other time-sensitive information. 
- use cosmos-mgmt for discussions about suggested change of processes
(e.g. the creation of a weekly integration build) 

Thoughts? 

Thanks,
Ruth. 


Ruth Lee
IBM Toronto Lab
ruthdaly@xxxxxxxxxx
T/L 313-4453 

David Whiteman <David_Whiteman@xxxxxxxxxx> 
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02/06/2008 03:16 PM 


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On other projects, the email lists tend to be for committer & design
discussions, and the newsgroups for user questions. Given that we don't
have an established user community, the newsgroup has been quiet. We
could move some discussion to the newsgroup, but I'm not sure how you
would determine which kind of info belongs there vs. the email list,
unless it has to do with how time-critical it is. So maybe we do design
discussion on the newsgroup and notices that everyone needs to see on
the email list? We could also look at creating multiple email lists or
using subject line triggers to help categorize the messages if we just
stuck with the email list. 

David 

Mark wrote on 02/06/2008 03:00:30 PM:

> 
> On the call today, Don indicated that the amount of traffic on the
mailing list is 
> getting to the point where it's difficult to keep up. 
> 
> For a while, we were using the newsgroup as well as this mailing list.
That's 
> tapered off, but we could try leveraging the newsgroup instead of the
mailing list 
> if we think it would help reduce the traffic and make managing the
flow if 
> information more manageable.
> 
> Just thinking out loud.... 
> 
> -Mark W._______________________________________________
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