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It is a great thing that Eclipse Genie copies over existing translation elsewhere, but there are some problems with this: 1 Sometimes one English string can be translated in different ways, depending on context 2 Sometimes translations are plain wrong 3 It translates strings that contain no words with themselves, but shouldn’t these be markes non-translatable? Solutions I see here: 1 Notify reviewers of new translations, such that they can review them. A review is necessary anyway, so maybe in the long run we have to think about a review marker for each string, and a possibility to freeze/protect them, similar to how it is with Wikipedia edits. 2 Show in the recent translations screen where Eclipse Genie got his original translation from, such that, apart from reviewing and adapting the new translation, the wrong source translation can be fixed as well. 3 Assign a reviewer for non-translatable markings? Print a list with those suggestions somewhere?
Ad 1: maybe also provide a possibility to mark a translation as ‘ambiguous’, such that EG ignores it?
(In reply to comment #0) > It is a great thing that Eclipse Genie copies over existing translation > elsewhere, but there are some problems with this: > 1 Sometimes one English string can be translated in different ways, depending > on context Well, why use the same english string in the first place then ? I'm not sure this is good. Overall, I think there should be one translation for one english string. That's how some products gets translated btw, they map the english string to the translation directly: yes=>oui And you don't have a choice. So I'd recommend you look for cases where an english string should have different translations, then we should decide whether we should change the english string, or if we really should improve on that. > 2 Sometimes translations are plain wrong Yes, that's an issue. Your comment could be a possible fix to that problem. > 3 It translates strings that contain no words with themselves, but shouldn’t > these be markes non-translatable? I don't understand what you mean. Could you provide an example please ? > > Solutions I see here: > > 1 Notify reviewers of new translations, such that they can review them. A > review is necessary anyway, so maybe in the long run we have to think about a > review marker for each string, and a possibility to freeze/protect them, > similar to how it is with Wikipedia edits. > > 2 Show in the recent translations screen where Eclipse Genie got his original > translation from, such that, apart from reviewing and adapting the new > translation, the wrong source translation can be fixed as well. > > 3 Assign a reviewer for non-translatable markings? Print a list with those > suggestions somewhere? >
(In reply to comment #2) > (In reply to comment #0) > > It is a great thing that Eclipse Genie copies over existing translation > > elsewhere, but there are some problems with this: > > 1 Sometimes one English string can be translated in different ways, depending > > on context > Well, why use the same english string in the first place then ? I'm not sure > this is good. > > Overall, I think there should be one translation for one english string. That's > how some products gets translated btw, they map the english string to the > translation directly: > > yes=>oui > > And you don't have a choice. > > So I'd recommend you look for cases where an english string should have > different translations, then we should decide whether we should change the > english string, or if we really should improve on that. While this sounds reasonable, I think it is not achievable and simply does not reflect linguistic reality. Examples are ‘View’, which could both mean ‘a window which shows part of the program/file’ or ‘have a look at it’. This is inherent in English where a lot of words are both verbs and nouns. I think the only solution is reviewing. For example, two of my recent translations: # 05:02 View -> Bekijken [ACTION_CASCADING_VIEW_LABEL] dsdp.tm 3.0.1 (Hendrik Maryns) # 05:01 View -> View [_UI_View_type] modeling.m2m 1.0 (Hendrik Maryns) > > 3 It translates strings that contain no words with themselves, but shouldn’t > > these be markes non-translatable? > I don't understand what you mean. Could you provide an example please ? http://babel.eclipse.org/babel/translate.php?project=eclipse&version=3.3.1&file=org.eclipse.ui.examples.contributions/plugin.properties&string=command.exit.mnemonic should probably not be marked as non-translatable, but not be translated automatically at all, since mnemonics are a very difficult thing to get right. A partial solution would be to have EG ignore all strings which contain ‘mnemonic’ in their entity name. http://babel.eclipse.org/babel/translate.php?project=modeling.emf&version=2.4.0&file=org.eclipse.emf/org.eclipse.emf/plugins/org.eclipse.emf.codegen.ecore.ui/plugin.properties&string=_UI_GenRuntimeVersion_EMF22_literal http://babel.eclipse.org/babel/translate.php?project=birt&version=2.3.0&file=source/org.eclipse.birt.report.engine.dataextraction.csv/src/config.properties&string=viewer.sep.1 obviously (?) non-translatable http://babel.eclipse.org/babel/translate.php?project=eclipse&version=3.4&file=org.eclipse.ui.workbench.texteditor/src/org/eclipse/ui/texteditor/templates/TemplatesMessages.properties&string=TemplatePreferencePage_import_extension More difficult. http://babel.eclipse.org/babel/translate.php?project=webtools&version=3.0&file=webservices/plugins/org.eclipse.wst.wsdl.ui/plugin.properties&string=HTTP Probably not feasible, or even not wanted (is HTTP translated somewhere?)
> This is inherent in English where a lot of words are both verbs and nouns. > > I think the only solution is reviewing. I see. I would agree on reviewing. I had submitted a bug on having a page that shows the various translations of an english string for conformance: https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=248570 [..] > http://babel.eclipse.org/babel/translate.php?project=webtools&version=3.0&file=webservices/plugins/org.eclipse.wst.wsdl.ui/plugin.properties&string=HTTP > Probably not feasible, or even not wanted (is HTTP translated somewhere?) Yes, if Genie propagated the value, HTTP must have been translated somewhere before. Genie picked up those strings as they were marked as translatable. I think it should be the responsability of the plugin maintainers to mark their strings as non translatable. Would you mind marking the strings as non-translatable when you encounter them ? All: I couldn't access the strings with the URLs provided. It seems the language is missing. Am I missing something or do we have a bug ?
(In reply to comment #4) > > This is inherent in English where a lot of words are both verbs and nouns. > > > > I think the only solution is reviewing. > > I see. I would agree on reviewing. I had submitted a bug on having a page that > shows the various translations of an english string for conformance: > https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=248570 That is a good suggestion indeed. We could generate automatic glossaries, with a column for preferred value, and then a listing of what really occurs. > > http://babel.eclipse.org/babel/translate.php?project=webtools&version=3.0&file=webservices/plugins/org.eclipse.wst.wsdl.ui/plugin.properties&string=HTTP > > Probably not feasible, or even not wanted (is HTTP translated somewhere?) > Yes, if Genie propagated the value, HTTP must have been translated somewhere > before. > > Genie picked up those strings as they were marked as translatable. I think it > should be the responsability of the plugin maintainers to mark their strings as > non translatable. That is a result of the IBM 3.2 translations, which of course just took over those kinds of strings, since the concept of non-translatability was only introduced with Babel (after my suggestion, I think :-) ) > Would you mind marking the strings as non-translatable when you encounter them > ? Of course I do so. > All: I couldn't access the strings with the URLs provided. It seems the > language is missing. Am I missing something or do we have a bug ? It works fine for me, but the first time you have to choose your language. It is then probably stored in a cookie. This seems to last only for one browser session, which I find unnecessary, since most of the time people will work in the same language.
> All: I couldn't access the strings with the URLs provided. It seems the > language is missing. Am I missing something or do we have a bug ? As soon as you pick your working language in the UI, the UI will continue loading the string. Your working language is then set in cookie. I intentionally omitted a language parameter when linking to a specific string, as I thought it not very helpful. If someone links to a string in, say, Japanese or Chinese, I (personally) cannot do anything with it. Feel free to open a separate bug if you feel otherwise.
This issue relates to 246199 for a great deal. Interesting. Marking this bug as depending on 248570. Could be seen as a duplicate, but I think 248570 is a subgoal of the goal this bug wants to achieve.
This bug hasn't had any activity in quite some time. Maybe the problem got resolved, was a duplicate of something else, or became less pressing for some reason - or maybe it's still relevant but just hasn't been looked at yet. If you have further information on the current state of the bug, please add it. The information can be, for example, that the problem still occurs, that you still want the feature, that more information is needed, or that the bug is (for whatever reason) no longer relevant. -- The automated Eclipse Genie.
