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Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in EAVP

Jep, we are trying to get Apache Math 3.5 accepted by the IP Team ... hopefully :-).


Am 03.09.2015 um 11:53 schrieb Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx:

Hello,

 

Just to clarify: I contacted Kichwa and they were talking about the whole of DAWN when they say “there are likely to be many more of them that we have problems resolving IP issues.” DAWNSci Eclipse Project (DAWNSci != DAWN) purposely avoids all these dependencies. Components from it such as IDataset have few dependencies. Peter has already discovered that Apache math3 should not be an issue and I think he an Philip are clarifying with the Foundation.

 

Best Regards,

 

Matt

 

 

 

From: science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jonah Graham
Sent: 02 September 2015 19:47
To: Science Industry Working Group
Subject: Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in EAVP

 

Hi Werner,

 

I don't think anyone is trying to get that particular code IP reviewed at the moment[1]. I will come back to you when we are ready to resolve the issue javax.measure.unit. It is but one of many many wonderful libraries that Diamond have used to build the excellent Dawn tools and, unfortunately, there are likely to be many more of them that we have problems resolving IP issues.

 

 

Jonah

 

 

 

On 2 September 2015 at 19:05, UOMo <uomo@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

 

IDataSet is precisely from the bundle "org.eclipse.dawnsci.analysis.api" that uses unidentified IP (not aware of a CQ for e.g. JScience 4.3.1) in the form of javax.measure.unit;version="4.3.1".


Werner

 

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: IDataSet in EAVP (Wayne Beaton)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 13:38:00 -0400
From: Wayne Beaton <wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: science-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx, "emo-ip-team@xxxxxxxxxxx"
        <emo-ip-team@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in EAVP
Message-ID: <55E733F8.7090806@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"

Yes. You can do a release that includes only some parts. The IP Team
needs to have approved all IP included in those pieces that are
released. This includes any third-party libraries that are used by those
bits of code.

(I probably should have made that more clear in my earlier response)

Wayne

On 02/09/15 01:18 PM, Jay Jay Billings wrote:
>
> Thanks Wayne!
>
> If I read this correctly, we need to do a formal release of the parts
> we are planning to use, but not the whole project?
>
> Jay
>
> On Sep 2, 2015 11:27 AM, "Wayne Beaton" <wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>
>     A mature project can use released bits (i.e. code and binaries
>     produced for a formal release) from a project in the incubation phase.
>
>     Naturally, all of the used code must have check-in approval from
>     the IP Team (i.e. is subject to the IP Due Diligence Process).
>
>     Any downloads that include incubating code must be labeled as such
>     (e.g. "contains incubating components").
>
>     HTH,
>
>     Wayne
>
>     On 01/09/15 12:43 PM, Jay Jay Billings wrote:
>>     Matt,
>>
>>     Let's ask the Foundation. I have CC'ed the IP team on this response.
>>
>>     Dear EMO IP Team,
>>
>>     Could you please help us determine what, if any, are the IP
>>     issues associated with an Eclipse project using code from an
>>     incubating project? As the email discussion below details, we
>>     would like to use the IDataSet plugins from DAWNSci, which is
>>     incubating, in the Eclipse Advanced Visualization Project once it
>>     is up and running. As I understand it, this type of scenario
>>     requires special care from an IP perspective since incubating
>>     projects may face several issues on that front.
>>
>>     Jay
>>
>>     On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 12:10 PM, <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>     <mailto:Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>>         Jay,
>>
>>         What are the IP issues? How do official releases vs. other
>>         kinds of releases help? J
>>
>>         Now that the two plugins are in DAWNSci* does the rest of
>>         DAWNSci have to pass IP checking? That should be ok, there is
>>         not much which is non-eclipse and the CQ?s are raised. If
>>         EAVP was waiting for release on DAWNSci it should be possible
>>         to do that with little risk.
>>
>>         Matt
>>
>>         *(Which state of affairs I was pushed into somewhat, if you
>>         remember I did say that they should be a community project.)
>>
>>         *From:*science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>         <mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>         [mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>         <mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>] *On Behalf Of *Jay
>>         Jay Billings
>>         *Sent:* 01 September 2015 16:44
>>
>>
>>         *To:* Science Industry Working Group
>>         *Subject:* Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in EAVP
>>
>>         Matt,
>>
>>         The biggest concern, in my mind, with using it from DAWNSci
>>         is not the license, but the IP issues. If you are planning an
>>         official release of DAWNSci, then all those issues
>>         (eventually) go away. However, if not, then it isn't clear
>>         how we could "legally" (procedural sense) use it.
>>
>>         Jay
>>
>>         On Sep 1, 2015 11:12 AM, <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>         <mailto:Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>>         Jay,
>>
>>         >> the whole community, me included, really wants to be able
>>         to use IDataSet with EAVP
>>
>>         Perfect! What is the blocker in using it right now?
>>
>>         I suggest to put it in EAVP from where it is, it is there on
>>         the eclipse github and EPL licensed. Import statements can be
>>         changed later and eclipse projects can depend on one another
>>         after all.
>>
>>         Tim suggested sciDataset, so perhaps the eventual
>>         package/project could be org.eclipse.scidataset? But before
>>         we do that, I would like to quantify the need from the
>>         community of its location.
>>
>>         Given that it is two plugins, it should be pretty easy to
>>         create a project for it faster than EAVP and ensure that EAVP
>>         can make its targets for releasing with the Eclipse train; if
>>         that is the blocker.
>>
>>         Best Regards,
>>
>>         Matt
>>
>>         *From:*science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>         <mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>         [mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>         <mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>] *On Behalf Of *Jay
>>         Jay Billings
>>         *Sent:* 01 September 2015 14:56
>>         *To:* Science Industry Working Group
>>         *Subject:* Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in EAVP
>>
>>         Matt,
>>
>>         Will you please clarify your response and be a little more
>>         definitive please? My feeling is that the the whole
>>         community, me included, really wants to be able to use
>>         IDataSet with EAVP. I am essentially trying to figure out if
>>         this is something that we can plan and push for as part of
>>         our 1.0 release in 6-12 months or if it needs to wait until a
>>         2.0 release sometime after that.
>>
>>         So, are you saying that you don't know what you're going to
>>         do with it yet? Or are you saying that you want to propose a
>>         new "data structures" project that we could wait on?
>>
>>         Even a statement of "I need more time to investigate this"
>>         would be fine, just as long as you say it unequivocally,
>>         because then I can put it on the potential feature set for
>>         the EAVP 2.0 release next year and leave it out of 1.0.
>>
>>         Jay
>>
>>         On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 6:04 AM, <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>         <mailto:Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>>         Hello Jay and other folks,
>>
>>         >> Alex noted that you felt like the "moving IDataSet" option
>>         would make EAVP a competitor to DAWNSci.
>>
>>         To clarify, I said was that at the point where EAVP does not
>>         use IDataset, it becomes a competitor to DAWNSci JThis is
>>         because the numerics become less compatible but the scope is
>>         the same. If the numerics are compatible it becomes a
>>         collaborator with a similar scope.
>>
>>         I think our vision for IDataset is not a visualization
>>         specific project but something more general, just as numpy is
>>         for python. IDataset is two plugins with few dependencies.
>>         Suggestions about where it sits not specific to any single
>>         use case (visualization, numerics, scripting, etc) are welcome.
>>
>>         If we do move, we might need a name like numjy, jDataset etc.
>>         for the project, again suggestions welcome! There would also
>>         be some Diamond internal work for me to consider and agree,
>>         likely not a blocker although I might ask external people
>>         register specific interest in how they will reuse it and why
>>         they want it moved.
>>
>>         I also reported in the meeting that IDataset is complete but
>>         can be faster for some operations. When/if speed issues
>>         arise, there are a number of strategies which can be used
>>         already or new code added JIt can deal with data much larger
>>         than available memory, which is a powerful way at looking at
>>         large data on small computers.
>>
>>         Matt
>>
>>         *From:*science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>         <mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>         [mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>         <mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>] *On Behalf Of *Jay
>>         Jay Billings
>>         *Sent:* 31 August 2015 20:41
>>         *To:* Science Industry Working Group
>>         *Subject:* Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in EAVP
>>
>>         Everyone,
>>
>>         I should clarify that EAVP is short for "the Eclipse Advanced
>>         Visualization Project" for those who haven't heard of it
>>         before. It is the viz project that we have been discussing
>>         for awhile.
>>
>>         Jau
>>
>>         On Aug 31, 2015 2:01 PM, "Jay Jay Billings"
>>         <jayjaybillings@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jayjaybillings@xxxxxxxxx>>


>>         wrote:
>>
>>         Matt,
>>
>>         I met with Alex this morning and he told me how awesome the
>>         Norway meeting was. He also told me that there is broad
>>         support for using IDataSet in EAVP. I would like to discuss
>>         how we can move forward on this. I strongly support the use
>>         of IDataSet in EAVP and I really want to see a tight
>>         integration because it is technology that would be very
>>         valuable to what we are doing at ORNL and, I imagine, other
>>         institutions in this group. There is a very big technical
>>         question that we need to answer though: Where is IDataSet
>>         going to be released?
>>
>>
>>         In one of our previous steering committee calls you said that
>>         DIAMOND has no intention of doing a "full Eclipse release" of
>>         DAWNSci since your goal with the project was only to release
>>         the source code, not binaries. That makes it very challenging
>>         to use anything in DAWNSci in any other SWG project because
>>         it lacks that Eclipse "technical goodness" that many of our
>>         projects depend on.
>>
>>         So, if you don't mind, let's start there. What are your
>>         release plans for DAWNSci? If you are planning an official,
>>         Eclipse.org release then I think we can use IDataSet as it is
>>         and just wait on your release. However, if not or if not
>>         reasonably soon, then I think you should seriously consider
>>         contributing it to EAVP so that the community can use it and
>>         help develop it with you.
>>
>>         Alex noted that you felt like the "moving IDataSet" option
>>         would make EAVP a competitor to DAWNSci. I don't personally
>>         see that since no other Eclipse projects are competitors to
>>         DAWNSci. I urge you not to look at the project that way
>>         either. It is meant to be an open, community effort that we
>>         all work on - and use - together.
>>
>>         Please let me know what you think and let's keep this
>>         discussion in the open so that we can get good thoughts and
>>         ideas from the community. I'm certain there is a workable
>>         path forward on this.
>>
>>         Jay
>>
>>
>>         --
>>
>>         Jay Jay Billings
>>
>>         Oak Ridge National Laboratory
>>
>>         Twitter Handle: @jayjaybillings
>>
>>         --
>>
>>         This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential,
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>>
>>         Jay Jay Billings
>>
>>         Oak Ridge National Laboratory
>>
>>         Twitter Handle: @jayjaybillings
>>
>>         --
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>>         This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential,
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