Jep, we are trying to get Apache Math 3.5 accepted by the IP Team
... hopefully :-).
Hello,
Just
to clarify: I contacted Kichwa and they were talking about
the whole of DAWN when they say “there
are likely to be many more of them that we have problems
resolving IP issues.”
DAWNSci Eclipse Project (DAWNSci != DAWN) purposely
avoids all these dependencies. Components from it such as
IDataset have
few dependencies. Peter has already
discovered that Apache math3 should not be an issue and I
think he an Philip are clarifying with the Foundation.
Best
Regards,
Matt
From: science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jonah Graham
Sent: 02 September 2015 19:47
To: Science Industry Working Group
Subject: Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in EAVP
Hi Werner,
I don't think anyone is trying to get
that particular code IP reviewed at the moment[1]. I will
come back to you when we are ready to resolve the issue
javax.measure.unit. It is but one of many many wonderful
libraries that Diamond have used to build the excellent
Dawn tools and, unfortunately, there are likely to be many
more of them that we have problems resolving IP issues.
On 2 September 2015 at 19:05, UOMo
<uomo@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
IDataSet is precisely from the
bundle "org.eclipse.dawnsci.analysis.api" that uses
unidentified IP (not aware of a CQ for e.g. JScience
4.3.1) in the form
of javax.measure.unit;version="4.3.1".
On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 7:38 PM,
<science-iwg-request@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: IDataSet in EAVP (Wayne Beaton)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 13:38:00 -0400
From: Wayne Beaton <wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: science-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx, "emo-ip-team@xxxxxxxxxxx"
<emo-ip-team@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in EAVP
Message-ID: <55E733F8.7090806@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252";
Format="flowed"
Yes. You can do a release that includes only some
parts. The IP Team
needs to have approved all IP included in those
pieces that are
released. This includes any third-party libraries
that are used by those
bits of code.
(I probably should have made that more clear in my
earlier response)
Wayne
On 02/09/15 01:18 PM, Jay Jay Billings wrote:
>
> Thanks Wayne!
>
> If I read this correctly, we need to do a
formal release of the parts
> we are planning to use, but not the whole
project?
>
> Jay
>
> On Sep 2, 2015 11:27 AM, "Wayne Beaton" <wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
>
> A mature project can use released bits
(i.e. code and binaries
> produced for a formal release) from a
project in the incubation phase.
>
> Naturally, all of the used code must have
check-in approval from
> the IP Team (i.e. is subject to the IP
Due Diligence Process).
>
> Any downloads that include incubating
code must be labeled as such
> (e.g. "contains incubating components").
>
> HTH,
>
> Wayne
>
> On 01/09/15 12:43 PM, Jay Jay Billings
wrote:
>> Matt,
>>
>> Let's ask the Foundation. I have
CC'ed the IP team on this response.
>>
>> Dear EMO IP Team,
>>
>> Could you please help us determine
what, if any, are the IP
>> issues associated with an Eclipse
project using code from an
>> incubating project? As the email
discussion below details, we
>> would like to use the IDataSet
plugins from DAWNSci, which is
>> incubating, in the Eclipse Advanced
Visualization Project once it
>> is up and running. As I understand
it, this type of scenario
>> requires special care from an IP
perspective since incubating
>> projects may face several issues on
that front.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 12:10 PM, <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
>>
>> Jay,
>>
>> What are the IP issues? How do
official releases vs. other
>> kinds of releases help? J
>>
>> Now that the two plugins are in
DAWNSci* does the rest of
>> DAWNSci have to pass IP checking?
That should be ok, there is
>> not much which is non-eclipse and
the CQ?s are raised. If
>> EAVP was waiting for release on
DAWNSci it should be possible
>> to do that with little risk.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> *(Which state of affairs I was
pushed into somewhat, if you
>> remember I did say that they
should be a community project.)
>>
>> *From:*science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> [mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>]
*On Behalf Of *Jay
>> Jay Billings
>> *Sent:* 01 September 2015 16:44
>>
>>
>> *To:* Science Industry Working
Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [science-iwg]
IDataSet in EAVP
>>
>> Matt,
>>
>> The biggest concern, in my mind,
with using it from DAWNSci
>> is not the license, but the IP
issues. If you are planning an
>> official release of DAWNSci, then
all those issues
>> (eventually) go away. However, if
not, then it isn't clear
>> how we could "legally"
(procedural sense) use it.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> On Sep 1, 2015 11:12 AM, <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
>>
>> Jay,
>>
>> >> the whole community, me
included, really wants to be able
>> to use IDataSet with EAVP
>>
>> Perfect! What is the blocker in
using it right now?
>>
>> I suggest to put it in EAVP from
where it is, it is there on
>> the eclipse github and EPL
licensed. Import statements can be
>> changed later and eclipse
projects can depend on one another
>> after all.
>>
>> Tim suggested sciDataset, so
perhaps the eventual
>> package/project could be
org.eclipse.scidataset? But before
>> we do that, I would like to
quantify the need from the
>> community of its location.
>>
>> Given that it is two plugins, it
should be pretty easy to
>> create a project for it faster
than EAVP and ensure that EAVP
>> can make its targets for
releasing with the Eclipse train; if
>> that is the blocker.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> *From:*science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> [mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>]
*On Behalf Of *Jay
>> Jay Billings
>> *Sent:* 01 September 2015 14:56
>> *To:* Science Industry Working
Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [science-iwg]
IDataSet in EAVP
>>
>> Matt,
>>
>> Will you please clarify your
response and be a little more
>> definitive please? My feeling is
that the the whole
>> community, me included, really
wants to be able to use
>> IDataSet with EAVP. I am
essentially trying to figure out if
>> this is something that we can
plan and push for as part of
>> our 1.0 release in 6-12 months or
if it needs to wait until a
>> 2.0 release sometime after that.
>>
>> So, are you saying that you don't
know what you're going to
>> do with it yet? Or are you saying
that you want to propose a
>> new "data structures" project
that we could wait on?
>>
>> Even a statement of "I need more
time to investigate this"
>> would be fine, just as long as
you say it unequivocally,
>> because then I can put it on the
potential feature set for
>> the EAVP 2.0 release next year
and leave it out of 1.0.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 6:04 AM,
<Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
>>
>> Hello Jay and other folks,
>>
>> >> Alex noted that you felt
like the "moving IDataSet" option
>> would make EAVP a competitor to
DAWNSci.
>>
>> To clarify, I said was that at
the point where EAVP does not
>> use IDataset, it becomes a
competitor to DAWNSci JThis is
>> because the numerics become less
compatible but the scope is
>> the same. If the numerics are
compatible it becomes a
>> collaborator with a similar
scope.
>>
>> I think our vision for IDataset
is not a visualization
>> specific project but something
more general, just as numpy is
>> for python. IDataset is two
plugins with few dependencies.
>> Suggestions about where it sits
not specific to any single
>> use case (visualization,
numerics, scripting, etc) are welcome.
>>
>> If we do move, we might need a
name like numjy, jDataset etc.
>> for the project, again
suggestions welcome! There would also
>> be some Diamond internal work for
me to consider and agree,
>> likely not a blocker although I
might ask external people
>> register specific interest in how
they will reuse it and why
>> they want it moved.
>>
>> I also reported in the meeting
that IDataset is complete but
>> can be faster for some
operations. When/if speed issues
>> arise, there are a number of
strategies which can be used
>> already or new code added JIt can
deal with data much larger
>> than available memory, which is a
powerful way at looking at
>> large data on small computers.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> *From:*science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> [mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>]
*On Behalf Of *Jay
>> Jay Billings
>> *Sent:* 31 August 2015 20:41
>> *To:* Science Industry Working
Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [science-iwg]
IDataSet in EAVP
>>
>> Everyone,
>>
>> I should clarify that EAVP is
short for "the Eclipse Advanced
>> Visualization Project" for those
who haven't heard of it
>> before. It is the viz project
that we have been discussing
>> for awhile.
>>
>> Jau
>>
>> On Aug 31, 2015 2:01 PM, "Jay Jay
Billings"
>> <jayjaybillings@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:jayjaybillings@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Matt,
>>
>> I met with Alex this morning
and he told me how awesome the
>> Norway meeting was. He also
told me that there is broad
>> support for using IDataSet in
EAVP. I would like to discuss
>> how we can move forward on
this. I strongly support the use
>> of IDataSet in EAVP and I
really want to see a tight
>> integration because it is
technology that would be very
>> valuable to what we are doing
at ORNL and, I imagine, other
>> institutions in this group.
There is a very big technical
>> question that we need to
answer though: Where is IDataSet
>> going to be released?
>>
>>
>> In one of our previous
steering committee calls you said that
>> DIAMOND has no intention of
doing a "full Eclipse release" of
>> DAWNSci since your goal with
the project was only to release
>> the source code, not
binaries. That makes it very challenging
>> to use anything in DAWNSci in
any other SWG project because
>> it lacks that Eclipse
"technical goodness" that many of our
>> projects depend on.
>>
>> So, if you don't mind, let's
start there. What are your
>> release plans for DAWNSci? If
you are planning an official,
>> Eclipse.org release then I
think we can use IDataSet as it is
>> and just wait on your
release. However, if not or if not
>> reasonably soon, then I think
you should seriously consider
>> contributing it to EAVP so
that the community can use it and
>> help develop it with you.
>>
>> Alex noted that you felt like
the "moving IDataSet" option
>> would make EAVP a competitor
to DAWNSci. I don't personally
>> see that since no other
Eclipse projects are competitors to
>> DAWNSci. I urge you not to
look at the project that way
>> either. It is meant to be an
open, community effort that we
>> all work on - and use -
together.
>>
>> Please let me know what you
think and let's keep this
>> discussion in the open so
that we can get good thoughts and
>> ideas from the community. I'm
certain there is a workable
>> path forward on this.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Jay Jay Billings
>>
>> Oak Ridge National Laboratory
>>
>> Twitter Handle:
@jayjaybillings
>>
>> --
>>
>> This e-mail and any
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>> --
>>
>> Jay Jay Billings
>>
>> Oak Ridge National Laboratory
>>
>> Twitter Handle:
@jayjaybillings
>>
>> --
>>
>> This e-mail and any
attachments may contain confidential,
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cannot guarantee that this e-mail
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>> liability for any damage
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>> Diamond Light Source Limited
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>> Registered in England and
Wales with its registered office at
>> Diamond House, Harwell
Science and Innovation Campus, Didcot,
>> Oxfordshire, OX11 0DE, United
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Diamond Light Source Ltd.
>> Diamond Light Source Ltd. cannot
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>> liability for any damage which
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>> Registered in England and Wales
with its registered office at
>> Diamond House, Harwell Science
and Innovation Campus, Didcot,
>> Oxfordshire, OX11 0DE, United
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>> Twitter Handle: @jayjaybillings
>>
>>
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> EclipseCon Europe 2015 <http://www.eclipsecon.org/europe2015>
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