Hi Peter,
I'm currently writing a response to the IP Team.
If you don't mind, I'll add you to CC.
Best,
Philip
Am 02.09.2015 um 16:17 schrieb Philip
Wenig:
Hi Peter,
you're absolutely right.
I'll discuss it with the IP team. Hopefully the class gets
accepted so that I can prepare Commons Math 3.5 for Eclipse Orbit.
Best,
Philip
Thanks
Philip for the pointer.
It
is a little strange that they are obstructing its progress
owing to some problem with a RNG. I think they have made
an incorrect decision here: the paper referenced describes
the algorithm for WELL class of RNGs which is implemented
by an abstract class plus concrete classes containing
“good” constants plus a combination method (without any
direct copying of the reference C code). If they think
there are IP violations here then all implementations of
mathematical functions are problematic!
Regards,
Peter
Hi Peter,
Apache Commons Math is great library ... but it's hard
getting it through the IP review process. I've already
file a CQ to bring Commons Math 3.5 to Eclipse Orbit:
http://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=9724
Somehow, "AbstractWell.java" can't be accepted. Removing
causes a plethora of subsequent problems. I'm trying to
resolve that issue at the moment.
Best,
Philip
Hi
all,
In
terms of bikeshedding a package name, I don’t think it
is a big deal even for Diamond. Searching through our
scripts finds less than 100 of them import of the api
and impl dataset packages.
Most
of the other issues are eminently solvable. The
exception would be dependencies: if the jars are
separated out then this should not be an issue. Or
have I misunderstood and there are more problems? (Why
is AC Maths bad?)
Regards,
Peter
Hi all,
I am currently moving the
plug-ins to a new repository (actually not really
a different one, but a fork with the non-relevant
code deleted, that allows for maintaining the
history). I am trying to make this repo the
minimum that enables people to use datasets
without requiring any additional dependencies. It
would be great to get this as part of a top level
project.
By having a repo with a smaller
code base, hopefully it can be API versioned
sooner and IP reviewed in such a way to solve the
EAVP dependency issue.
There is still how to manage
that code base back in Diamond, in particular
moving datasets to a new package has a cost to
Diamond because there are many Jython scripts in
the wild that refer to them.
On 1 September 2015 at 17:55,
Torkild Ulvøy Resheim <torkildr@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi all,
I wonder if it would make any sense to move the
two plug-ins in question to a separate
repository and namespace and do the IP-review on
those. Moving these should also rid them of
dependencies such as Apache Commons Math which i
understand is problematic. I like the namespace
“org.eclipse.dataset” but it may be a bit to
generic. In preparation for a top level science
project we may want to call it
“org.eclipse.science.dataset”.
Best regards,
Torkild
> 1. sep. 2015 kl. 18.39 skrev Jonah
Graham <jonah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>
> Hi all,
>
> If I can chime in with our 2 cents.
>
> Following the SWG meeting in Trondheim
it was great to see the community get behind
the need for a standardised data api. Based
on what I know of IDataset (and the way it
matches numpy) I am convinced that is the
way forward. However, I do see there is work
to be done to get there.
>
> The issues we see in particular are:
> 1. There are precompiled jars in the
current dataset plugin - this must be
resolved so it can be all source.
> 2. There are dependencies on non-orbit
approved 3rd party packages- we started
discussing in Trondheim how some of these
can be resolve.
> 3. There are 2 plugins & the api
plugin comes with lots of other
(non-relevant) apis
> 4. The code has not been IP-review and
established as IP clean.
>
> These are all very surmountable, and in
fact we (kichwa coders) would like to go
ahead and do something about it.
> Jonah is currently working on a fork of
IDataset, which will be a subset of the
current functionality available in the
DAWNSci plug-ins. We need to work with the
folks at Diamond about the best way to
structure this so it can be reintegrated
with DAWNSci & other Diamond projects,
but still be re-usable for SWG.
>
> The goal will be to get this into a
stage where it can be easily IP-checked and
meets this criteria
> - available in an Eclipse build
infrastructure
> - has a reproducible build from source
> - IP checked & clean
> - generates a p2 site
> - can be reusued in other projects in
different formats (jars, oomph installers,
the whole works)
>
> Where it is made available is not
nearly as relevant as that it is made
relevant (but FWIW, we would favour a
top-level science project).
>
> We'd like to work with all in the
community to push this forward so will send
a pointer to the fork by the end of the week
and welcome comments.
>
> Oh, and our working title is
org.eclipse.dataset (because we think this
is key for any data whatsoever, even beyond
science).
>
> Regards,
> Tracy
>
>
>
> ~~~
> Jonah Graham
> Kichwa Coders Ltd.
> www.kichwacoders.com
> jonah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> +44
(0) 1494523014
> +44
(0) 7988836817
>
> On 1 September 2015 at 17:10, <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> Jay,
>
>
>
> What are the IP issues? How do official
releases vs. other kinds of releases help? J
>
>
>
> Now that the two plugins are in
DAWNSci* does the rest of DAWNSci have to
pass IP checking? That should be ok, there
is not much which is non-eclipse and the
CQ’s are raised. If EAVP was waiting for
release on DAWNSci it should be possible to
do that with little risk.
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> *(Which state of affairs I was pushed
into somewhat, if you remember I did say
that they should be a community project.)
>
>
>
> From: science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jay Jay Billings
> Sent: 01 September 2015 16:44
>
>
> To: Science Industry Working Group
> Subject: Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in
EAVP
>
>
>
> Matt,
>
> The biggest concern, in my mind, with
using it from DAWNSci is not the license,
but the IP issues. If you are planning an
official release of DAWNSci, then all those
issues (eventually) go away. However, if
not, then it isn't clear how we could
"legally" (procedural sense) use it.
>
> Jay
>
> On Sep 1, 2015 11:12 AM, <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>
> Jay,
>
>
>
> >> the whole community, me
included, really wants to be able to use
IDataSet with EAVP
>
> Perfect! What is the blocker in using
it right now?
>
>
>
> I suggest to put it in EAVP from where
it is, it is there on the eclipse github and
EPL licensed. Import statements can be
changed later and eclipse projects can
depend on one another after all.
>
>
>
> Tim suggested sciDataset, so perhaps
the eventual package/project could be
org.eclipse.scidataset? But before we do
that, I would like to quantify the need from
the community of its location.
>
>
>
> Given that it is two plugins, it should
be pretty easy to create a project for it
faster than EAVP and ensure that EAVP can
make its targets for releasing with the
Eclipse train; if that is the blocker.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jay Jay Billings
> Sent: 01 September 2015 14:56
> To: Science Industry Working Group
> Subject: Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in
EAVP
>
>
>
> Matt,
>
> Will you please clarify your response
and be a little more definitive please? My
feeling is that the the whole community, me
included, really wants to be able to use
IDataSet with EAVP. I am essentially trying
to figure out if this is something that we
can plan and push for as part of our 1.0
release in 6-12 months or if it needs to
wait until a 2.0 release sometime after
that.
>
> So, are you saying that you don't know
what you're going to do with it yet? Or are
you saying that you want to propose a new
"data structures" project that we could wait
on?
>
> Even a statement of "I need more time
to investigate this" would be fine, just as
long as you say it unequivocally, because
then I can put it on the potential feature
set for the EAVP 2.0 release next year and
leave it out of 1.0.
>
> Jay
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 6:04 AM, <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>
> Hello Jay and other folks,
>
>
>
> >> Alex noted that you felt like
the "moving IDataSet" option would make EAVP
a competitor to DAWNSci.
>
> To clarify, I said was that at the
point where EAVP does not use IDataset, it
becomes a competitor to DAWNSci J This is
because the numerics become less compatible
but the scope is the same. If the numerics
are compatible it becomes a collaborator
with a similar scope.
>
>
>
> I think our vision for IDataset is not
a visualization specific project but
something more general, just as numpy is for
python. IDataset is two plugins with few
dependencies. Suggestions about where it
sits not specific to any single use case
(visualization, numerics, scripting, etc)
are welcome.
>
>
>
> If we do move, we might need a name
like numjy, jDataset etc. for the project,
again suggestions welcome! There would also
be some Diamond internal work for me to
consider and agree, likely not a blocker
although I might ask external people
register specific interest in how they will
reuse it and why they want it moved.
>
>
>
> I also reported in the meeting that
IDataset is complete but can be faster for
some operations. When/if speed issues arise,
there are a number of strategies which can
be used already or new code added J It can
deal with data much larger than available
memory, which is a powerful way at looking
at large data on small computers.
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> From: science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jay Jay Billings
> Sent: 31 August 2015 20:41
> To: Science Industry Working Group
> Subject: Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in
EAVP
>
>
>
> Everyone,
>
> I should clarify that EAVP is short for
"the Eclipse Advanced Visualization Project"
for those who haven't heard of it before. It
is the viz project that we have been
discussing for awhile.
>
> Jau
>
> On Aug 31, 2015 2:01 PM, "Jay Jay
Billings" <jayjaybillings@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>
> Matt,
>
> I met with Alex this morning and he
told me how awesome the Norway meeting was.
He also told me that there is broad support
for using IDataSet in EAVP. I would like to
discuss how we can move forward on this. I
strongly support the use of IDataSet in EAVP
and I really want to see a tight integration
because it is technology that would be very
valuable to what we are doing at ORNL and, I
imagine, other institutions in this group.
There is a very big technical question that
we need to answer though: Where is IDataSet
going to be released?
>
>
> In one of our previous steering
committee calls you said that DIAMOND has no
intention of doing a "full Eclipse release"
of DAWNSci since your goal with the project
was only to release the source code, not
binaries. That makes it very challenging to
use anything in DAWNSci in any other SWG
project because it lacks that Eclipse
"technical goodness" that many of our
projects depend on.
>
> So, if you don't mind, let's start
there. What are your release plans for
DAWNSci? If you are planning an official,
Eclipse.org release then I think we can use
IDataSet as it is and just wait on your
release. However, if not or if not
reasonably soon, then I think you should
seriously consider contributing it to EAVP
so that the community can use it and help
develop it with you.
>
> Alex noted that you felt like the
"moving IDataSet" option would make EAVP a
competitor to DAWNSci. I don't personally
see that since no other Eclipse projects are
competitors to DAWNSci. I urge you not to
look at the project that way either. It is
meant to be an open, community effort that
we all work on - and use - together.
>
> Please let me know what you think and
let's keep this discussion in the open so
that we can get good thoughts and ideas from
the community. I'm certain there is a
workable path forward on this.
>
> Jay
>
>
> --
>
> Jay Jay Billings
>
> Oak Ridge National Laboratory
>
> Twitter Handle: @jayjaybillings
>
>
>
> --
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