Hi Peter,
you're absolutely right.
I'll discuss it with the IP team. Hopefully the class gets accepted
so that I can prepare Commons Math 3.5 for Eclipse Orbit.
Best,
Philip
Thanks
Philip for the pointer.
It
is a little strange that they are obstructing its progress
owing to some problem with a RNG. I think they have made an
incorrect decision here: the paper referenced describes the
algorithm for WELL class of RNGs which is implemented by an
abstract class plus concrete classes containing “good”
constants plus a combination method (without any direct
copying of the reference C code). If they think there are IP
violations here then all implementations of mathematical
functions are problematic!
Regards,
Peter
Hi Peter,
Apache Commons Math is great library ... but it's hard
getting it through the IP review process. I've already file
a CQ to bring Commons Math 3.5 to Eclipse Orbit:
http://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=9724
Somehow, "AbstractWell.java" can't be accepted. Removing
causes a plethora of subsequent problems. I'm trying to
resolve that issue at the moment.
Best,
Philip
Hi
all,
In
terms of bikeshedding a package name, I don’t think it
is a big deal even for Diamond. Searching through our
scripts finds less than 100 of them import of the api
and impl dataset packages.
Most
of the other issues are eminently solvable. The
exception would be dependencies: if the jars are
separated out then this should not be an issue. Or have
I misunderstood and there are more problems? (Why is AC
Maths bad?)
Regards,
Peter
Hi all,
I am currently moving the
plug-ins to a new repository (actually not really a
different one, but a fork with the non-relevant code
deleted, that allows for maintaining the history). I
am trying to make this repo the minimum that enables
people to use datasets without requiring any
additional dependencies. It would be great to get
this as part of a top level project.
By having a repo with a smaller
code base, hopefully it can be API versioned sooner
and IP reviewed in such a way to solve the EAVP
dependency issue.
There is still how to manage that
code base back in Diamond, in particular moving
datasets to a new package has a cost to Diamond
because there are many Jython scripts in the wild
that refer to them.
On 1 September 2015 at 17:55,
Torkild Ulvøy Resheim <torkildr@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi all,
I wonder if it would make any sense to move the
two plug-ins in question to a separate repository
and namespace and do the IP-review on those.
Moving these should also rid them of dependencies
such as Apache Commons Math which i understand is
problematic. I like the namespace
“org.eclipse.dataset” but it may be a bit to
generic. In preparation for a top level science
project we may want to call it
“org.eclipse.science.dataset”.
Best regards,
Torkild
> 1. sep. 2015 kl. 18.39 skrev Jonah Graham
<jonah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>
> Hi all,
>
> If I can chime in with our 2 cents.
>
> Following the SWG meeting in Trondheim it
was great to see the community get behind the
need for a standardised data api. Based on
what I know of IDataset (and the way it
matches numpy) I am convinced that is the way
forward. However, I do see there is work to be
done to get there.
>
> The issues we see in particular are:
> 1. There are precompiled jars in the
current dataset plugin - this must be resolved
so it can be all source.
> 2. There are dependencies on non-orbit
approved 3rd party packages- we started
discussing in Trondheim how some of these can
be resolve.
> 3. There are 2 plugins & the api
plugin comes with lots of other (non-relevant)
apis
> 4. The code has not been IP-review and
established as IP clean.
>
> These are all very surmountable, and in
fact we (kichwa coders) would like to go ahead
and do something about it.
> Jonah is currently working on a fork of
IDataset, which will be a subset of the
current functionality available in the DAWNSci
plug-ins. We need to work with the folks at
Diamond about the best way to structure this
so it can be reintegrated with DAWNSci &
other Diamond projects, but still be re-usable
for SWG.
>
> The goal will be to get this into a stage
where it can be easily IP-checked and meets
this criteria
> - available in an Eclipse build
infrastructure
> - has a reproducible build from source
> - IP checked & clean
> - generates a p2 site
> - can be reusued in other projects in
different formats (jars, oomph installers, the
whole works)
>
> Where it is made available is not nearly
as relevant as that it is made relevant (but
FWIW, we would favour a top-level science
project).
>
> We'd like to work with all in the
community to push this forward so will send a
pointer to the fork by the end of the week and
welcome comments.
>
> Oh, and our working title is
org.eclipse.dataset (because we think this is
key for any data whatsoever, even beyond
science).
>
> Regards,
> Tracy
>
>
>
> ~~~
> Jonah Graham
> Kichwa Coders Ltd.
> www.kichwacoders.com
> jonah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> +44
(0) 1494523014
> +44
(0) 7988836817
>
> On 1 September 2015 at 17:10, <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> Jay,
>
>
>
> What are the IP issues? How do official
releases vs. other kinds of releases help? J
>
>
>
> Now that the two plugins are in DAWNSci*
does the rest of DAWNSci have to pass IP
checking? That should be ok, there is not much
which is non-eclipse and the CQ’s are raised.
If EAVP was waiting for release on DAWNSci it
should be possible to do that with little
risk.
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> *(Which state of affairs I was pushed
into somewhat, if you remember I did say that
they should be a community project.)
>
>
>
> From: science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jay Jay Billings
> Sent: 01 September 2015 16:44
>
>
> To: Science Industry Working Group
> Subject: Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in
EAVP
>
>
>
> Matt,
>
> The biggest concern, in my mind, with
using it from DAWNSci is not the license, but
the IP issues. If you are planning an official
release of DAWNSci, then all those issues
(eventually) go away. However, if not, then it
isn't clear how we could "legally" (procedural
sense) use it.
>
> Jay
>
> On Sep 1, 2015 11:12 AM, <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>
> Jay,
>
>
>
> >> the whole community, me
included, really wants to be able to use
IDataSet with EAVP
>
> Perfect! What is the blocker in using it
right now?
>
>
>
> I suggest to put it in EAVP from where it
is, it is there on the eclipse github and EPL
licensed. Import statements can be changed
later and eclipse projects can depend on one
another after all.
>
>
>
> Tim suggested sciDataset, so perhaps the
eventual package/project could be
org.eclipse.scidataset? But before we do that,
I would like to quantify the need from the
community of its location.
>
>
>
> Given that it is two plugins, it should
be pretty easy to create a project for it
faster than EAVP and ensure that EAVP can make
its targets for releasing with the Eclipse
train; if that is the blocker.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jay Jay Billings
> Sent: 01 September 2015 14:56
> To: Science Industry Working Group
> Subject: Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in
EAVP
>
>
>
> Matt,
>
> Will you please clarify your response and
be a little more definitive please? My feeling
is that the the whole community, me included,
really wants to be able to use IDataSet with
EAVP. I am essentially trying to figure out if
this is something that we can plan and push
for as part of our 1.0 release in 6-12 months
or if it needs to wait until a 2.0 release
sometime after that.
>
> So, are you saying that you don't know
what you're going to do with it yet? Or are
you saying that you want to propose a new
"data structures" project that we could wait
on?
>
> Even a statement of "I need more time to
investigate this" would be fine, just as long
as you say it unequivocally, because then I
can put it on the potential feature set for
the EAVP 2.0 release next year and leave it
out of 1.0.
>
> Jay
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 6:04 AM, <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>
> Hello Jay and other folks,
>
>
>
> >> Alex noted that you felt like
the "moving IDataSet" option would make EAVP a
competitor to DAWNSci.
>
> To clarify, I said was that at the point
where EAVP does not use IDataset, it becomes a
competitor to DAWNSci J This is because the
numerics become less compatible but the scope
is the same. If the numerics are compatible it
becomes a collaborator with a similar scope.
>
>
>
> I think our vision for IDataset is not a
visualization specific project but something
more general, just as numpy is for python.
IDataset is two plugins with few dependencies.
Suggestions about where it sits not specific
to any single use case (visualization,
numerics, scripting, etc) are welcome.
>
>
>
> If we do move, we might need a name like
numjy, jDataset etc. for the project, again
suggestions welcome! There would also be some
Diamond internal work for me to consider and
agree, likely not a blocker although I might
ask external people register specific interest
in how they will reuse it and why they want it
moved.
>
>
>
> I also reported in the meeting that
IDataset is complete but can be faster for
some operations. When/if speed issues arise,
there are a number of strategies which can be
used already or new code added J It can deal
with data much larger than available memory,
which is a powerful way at looking at large
data on small computers.
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> From: science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jay Jay Billings
> Sent: 31 August 2015 20:41
> To: Science Industry Working Group
> Subject: Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in
EAVP
>
>
>
> Everyone,
>
> I should clarify that EAVP is short for
"the Eclipse Advanced Visualization Project"
for those who haven't heard of it before. It
is the viz project that we have been
discussing for awhile.
>
> Jau
>
> On Aug 31, 2015 2:01 PM, "Jay Jay
Billings" <jayjaybillings@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>
> Matt,
>
> I met with Alex this morning and he told
me how awesome the Norway meeting was. He also
told me that there is broad support for using
IDataSet in EAVP. I would like to discuss how
we can move forward on this. I strongly
support the use of IDataSet in EAVP and I
really want to see a tight integration because
it is technology that would be very valuable
to what we are doing at ORNL and, I imagine,
other institutions in this group. There is a
very big technical question that we need to
answer though: Where is IDataSet going to be
released?
>
>
> In one of our previous steering committee
calls you said that DIAMOND has no intention
of doing a "full Eclipse release" of DAWNSci
since your goal with the project was only to
release the source code, not binaries. That
makes it very challenging to use anything in
DAWNSci in any other SWG project because it
lacks that Eclipse "technical goodness" that
many of our projects depend on.
>
> So, if you don't mind, let's start there.
What are your release plans for DAWNSci? If
you are planning an official, Eclipse.org
release then I think we can use IDataSet as it
is and just wait on your release. However, if
not or if not reasonably soon, then I think
you should seriously consider contributing it
to EAVP so that the community can use it and
help develop it with you.
>
> Alex noted that you felt like the "moving
IDataSet" option would make EAVP a competitor
to DAWNSci. I don't personally see that since
no other Eclipse projects are competitors to
DAWNSci. I urge you not to look at the project
that way either. It is meant to be an open,
community effort that we all work on - and use
- together.
>
> Please let me know what you think and
let's keep this discussion in the open so that
we can get good thoughts and ideas from the
community. I'm certain there is a workable
path forward on this.
>
> Jay
>
>
> --
>
> Jay Jay Billings
>
> Oak Ridge National Laboratory
>
> Twitter Handle: @jayjaybillings
>
>
>
> --
>
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>
> Oak Ridge National Laboratory
>
> Twitter Handle: @jayjaybillings
>
>
>
> --
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> This e-mail and any attachments may
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