Hi Peter,
Apache Commons Math is great library ... but it's hard getting it
through the IP review process. I've already file a CQ to bring
Commons Math 3.5 to Eclipse Orbit:
http://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=9724
Somehow, "AbstractWell.java" can't be accepted. Removing causes a
plethora of subsequent problems. I'm trying to resolve that issue at
the moment.
Best,
Philip
Hi
all,
In
terms of bikeshedding a package name, I don’t think it is a
big deal even for Diamond. Searching through our scripts
finds less than 100 of them import of the api and impl
dataset packages.
Most
of the other issues are eminently solvable. The exception
would be dependencies: if the jars are separated out then
this should not be an issue. Or have I misunderstood and
there are more problems? (Why is AC Maths bad?)
Regards,
Peter
Hi all,
I am currently moving the plug-ins to
a new repository (actually not really a different one,
but a fork with the non-relevant code deleted, that
allows for maintaining the history). I am trying to make
this repo the minimum that enables people to use
datasets without requiring any additional dependencies.
It would be great to get this as part of a top level
project.
By having a repo with a smaller code
base, hopefully it can be API versioned sooner and IP
reviewed in such a way to solve the EAVP dependency
issue.
There is still how to manage that
code base back in Diamond, in particular moving datasets
to a new package has a cost to Diamond because there are
many Jython scripts in the wild that refer to them.
On 1 September 2015 at 17:55,
Torkild Ulvøy Resheim <torkildr@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi all,
I wonder if it would make any sense to move the two
plug-ins in question to a separate repository and
namespace and do the IP-review on those. Moving these
should also rid them of dependencies such as Apache
Commons Math which i understand is problematic. I like
the namespace “org.eclipse.dataset” but it may be a
bit to generic. In preparation for a top level science
project we may want to call it
“org.eclipse.science.dataset”.
Best regards,
Torkild
> 1. sep. 2015 kl. 18.39 skrev Jonah Graham
<jonah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>
> Hi all,
>
> If I can chime in with our 2 cents.
>
> Following the SWG meeting in Trondheim it was
great to see the community get behind the need for
a standardised data api. Based on what I know of
IDataset (and the way it matches numpy) I am
convinced that is the way forward. However, I do
see there is work to be done to get there.
>
> The issues we see in particular are:
> 1. There are precompiled jars in the current
dataset plugin - this must be resolved so it can
be all source.
> 2. There are dependencies on non-orbit
approved 3rd party packages- we started discussing
in Trondheim how some of these can be resolve.
> 3. There are 2 plugins & the api plugin
comes with lots of other (non-relevant) apis
> 4. The code has not been IP-review and
established as IP clean.
>
> These are all very surmountable, and in fact
we (kichwa coders) would like to go ahead and do
something about it.
> Jonah is currently working on a fork of
IDataset, which will be a subset of the current
functionality available in the DAWNSci plug-ins.
We need to work with the folks at Diamond about
the best way to structure this so it can be
reintegrated with DAWNSci & other Diamond
projects, but still be re-usable for SWG.
>
> The goal will be to get this into a stage
where it can be easily IP-checked and meets this
criteria
> - available in an Eclipse build
infrastructure
> - has a reproducible build from source
> - IP checked & clean
> - generates a p2 site
> - can be reusued in other projects in
different formats (jars, oomph installers, the
whole works)
>
> Where it is made available is not nearly as
relevant as that it is made relevant (but FWIW, we
would favour a top-level science project).
>
> We'd like to work with all in the community
to push this forward so will send a pointer to the
fork by the end of the week and welcome comments.
>
> Oh, and our working title is
org.eclipse.dataset (because we think this is key
for any data whatsoever, even beyond science).
>
> Regards,
> Tracy
>
>
>
> ~~~
> Jonah Graham
> Kichwa Coders Ltd.
> www.kichwacoders.com
> jonah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> +44 (0)
1494523014
> +44 (0)
7988836817
>
> On 1 September 2015 at 17:10, <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> Jay,
>
>
>
> What are the IP issues? How do official
releases vs. other kinds of releases help? J
>
>
>
> Now that the two plugins are in DAWNSci* does
the rest of DAWNSci have to pass IP checking? That
should be ok, there is not much which is
non-eclipse and the CQ’s are raised. If EAVP was
waiting for release on DAWNSci it should be
possible to do that with little risk.
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> *(Which state of affairs I was pushed into
somewhat, if you remember I did say that they
should be a community project.)
>
>
>
> From: science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jay Jay Billings
> Sent: 01 September 2015 16:44
>
>
> To: Science Industry Working Group
> Subject: Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in EAVP
>
>
>
> Matt,
>
> The biggest concern, in my mind, with using
it from DAWNSci is not the license, but the IP
issues. If you are planning an official release of
DAWNSci, then all those issues (eventually) go
away. However, if not, then it isn't clear how we
could "legally" (procedural sense) use it.
>
> Jay
>
> On Sep 1, 2015 11:12 AM, <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>
> Jay,
>
>
>
> >> the whole community, me included,
really wants to be able to use IDataSet with EAVP
>
> Perfect! What is the blocker in using it
right now?
>
>
>
> I suggest to put it in EAVP from where it is,
it is there on the eclipse github and EPL
licensed. Import statements can be changed later
and eclipse projects can depend on one another
after all.
>
>
>
> Tim suggested sciDataset, so perhaps the
eventual package/project could be
org.eclipse.scidataset? But before we do that, I
would like to quantify the need from the community
of its location.
>
>
>
> Given that it is two plugins, it should be
pretty easy to create a project for it faster than
EAVP and ensure that EAVP can make its targets for
releasing with the Eclipse train; if that is the
blocker.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jay Jay Billings
> Sent: 01 September 2015 14:56
> To: Science Industry Working Group
> Subject: Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in EAVP
>
>
>
> Matt,
>
> Will you please clarify your response and be
a little more definitive please? My feeling is
that the the whole community, me included, really
wants to be able to use IDataSet with EAVP. I am
essentially trying to figure out if this is
something that we can plan and push for as part of
our 1.0 release in 6-12 months or if it needs to
wait until a 2.0 release sometime after that.
>
> So, are you saying that you don't know what
you're going to do with it yet? Or are you saying
that you want to propose a new "data structures"
project that we could wait on?
>
> Even a statement of "I need more time to
investigate this" would be fine, just as long as
you say it unequivocally, because then I can put
it on the potential feature set for the EAVP 2.0
release next year and leave it out of 1.0.
>
> Jay
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 6:04 AM, <Matt.Gerring@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>
> Hello Jay and other folks,
>
>
>
> >> Alex noted that you felt like the
"moving IDataSet" option would make EAVP a
competitor to DAWNSci.
>
> To clarify, I said was that at the point
where EAVP does not use IDataset, it becomes a
competitor to DAWNSci J This is because the
numerics become less compatible but the scope is
the same. If the numerics are compatible it
becomes a collaborator with a similar scope.
>
>
>
> I think our vision for IDataset is not a
visualization specific project but something more
general, just as numpy is for python. IDataset is
two plugins with few dependencies. Suggestions
about where it sits not specific to any single use
case (visualization, numerics, scripting, etc) are
welcome.
>
>
>
> If we do move, we might need a name like
numjy, jDataset etc. for the project, again
suggestions welcome! There would also be some
Diamond internal work for me to consider and
agree, likely not a blocker although I might ask
external people register specific interest in how
they will reuse it and why they want it moved.
>
>
>
> I also reported in the meeting that IDataset
is complete but can be faster for some operations.
When/if speed issues arise, there are a number of
strategies which can be used already or new code
added J It can deal with data much larger than
available memory, which is a powerful way at
looking at large data on small computers.
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> From: science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:science-iwg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jay Jay Billings
> Sent: 31 August 2015 20:41
> To: Science Industry Working Group
> Subject: Re: [science-iwg] IDataSet in EAVP
>
>
>
> Everyone,
>
> I should clarify that EAVP is short for "the
Eclipse Advanced Visualization Project" for those
who haven't heard of it before. It is the viz
project that we have been discussing for awhile.
>
> Jau
>
> On Aug 31, 2015 2:01 PM, "Jay Jay Billings"
<jayjaybillings@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>
> Matt,
>
> I met with Alex this morning and he told me
how awesome the Norway meeting was. He also told
me that there is broad support for using IDataSet
in EAVP. I would like to discuss how we can move
forward on this. I strongly support the use of
IDataSet in EAVP and I really want to see a tight
integration because it is technology that would be
very valuable to what we are doing at ORNL and, I
imagine, other institutions in this group. There
is a very big technical question that we need to
answer though: Where is IDataSet going to be
released?
>
>
> In one of our previous steering committee
calls you said that DIAMOND has no intention of
doing a "full Eclipse release" of DAWNSci since
your goal with the project was only to release the
source code, not binaries. That makes it very
challenging to use anything in DAWNSci in any
other SWG project because it lacks that Eclipse
"technical goodness" that many of our projects
depend on.
>
> So, if you don't mind, let's start there.
What are your release plans for DAWNSci? If you
are planning an official, Eclipse.org release then
I think we can use IDataSet as it is and just wait
on your release. However, if not or if not
reasonably soon, then I think you should seriously
consider contributing it to EAVP so that the
community can use it and help develop it with you.
>
> Alex noted that you felt like the "moving
IDataSet" option would make EAVP a competitor to
DAWNSci. I don't personally see that since no
other Eclipse projects are competitors to DAWNSci.
I urge you not to look at the project that way
either. It is meant to be an open, community
effort that we all work on - and use - together.
>
> Please let me know what you think and let's
keep this discussion in the open so that we can
get good thoughts and ideas from the community.
I'm certain there is a workable path forward on
this.
>
> Jay
>
>
> --
>
> Jay Jay Billings
>
> Oak Ridge National Laboratory
>
> Twitter Handle: @jayjaybillings
>
>
>
> --
>
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> Oak Ridge National Laboratory
>
> Twitter Handle: @jayjaybillings
>
>
>
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