Re: [rt-pmc] Runtime platforms on the eclipse download page

[Scott Lewis <slewis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Jesse,

On 6/24/2016 5:21 AM, Jesse McConnell wrote:
> mercy, hasn't this become a fun thread...thought I as the malcontent :P

I don't think you are the malcontent Jesse.

> Scott, sorry I am traveling so intermittently able to reply, but my 
> point about what the purpose of the page was that if it is about 
> discovery of _any_ technology (osgi, whatever) that happens to be 
> under Eclipse runtime then it absolutely should be expanded in its scope.

I think this thought gets at one of the major problems with RT group and 
by extension the Foundation.  It's *ostensibly* about discovery of 
Runtime technologies.  But it's not about discovery of RT technologies, 
it's rather about marketing projects that Ian (or someone(s)  behind 
him) judges 'worthy' of promotion.  And how is that judgment made?   
Well, best not to ask.

> If it is to showcase a small handful of successful projects then that 
> another matter and up to Eclipse Foundation discretion since they are 
> bankrolling the effort here.

I don't buy the 'bankrolling the effort' argument about discretion...aka 
control...here at all.  *WE* (projects/committer) are bankrolling the 
real effort (see Neon).   Just because we (sadly) don't hold any of the 
marketing purse strings...and the control that is purchased by 
it...doesn't mean that's not true. The large and seemingly ever-growing 
disconnect between the projects/committers and the people that do hold 
the EF purse strings is a critical defect in this system.

WRT your comments about the Runtime group:   I can honestly and 
accurately say as a long-time project lead that I've *never* gotten 
anything helpful from the Runtime group pmc (or by extension the EF).    
Lots of rules, extra work that is unfunded/unsupported (always by 
committer sweat equity), plenty of arguments where nothing is 
done/changed, plenty of 'Board decisions', or 'write your committer 
Board rep', but nothing actually helpful to my project. Wait...that's 
wrong.   ECF has gotten a lot from the other EF projects...we use/depend 
upon OSGi framework impls (Equinox, Concierge, Felix), Eclipse depends 
upon ECF and we contribute RS tooling to Eclipse, we use other project's 
frameworks (Jetty, Paho, Orbit, Apache, plenty of others), and the 
committers have been generally wonderful with technical support in their 
respective areas (Thomas, Jesse,  David, lots of other committers).   
But my question is:  what does any of this collaboration value provided 
by the RT, IoT, Eclipse, Technology, Tools, EMF committers have to do 
with the rt-pmc or EF other than IT?  I don't see it.

Scott