| Re: [rt-pmc] Runtime platforms on the eclipse download page |
On 6/23/2016 5:59 AM, Ian Skerrett wrote:
If the definition of runtime container is not clear then I am certainly open to clarifications. Wikipedia has listing for web container [1] and docker [2] that points to general software containers.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_container
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docker_(software)
As I predicted, it comes down to the definition of 'container'. Christian thinks that Riena represents a container, I believe ECF does, I'm sure Jesse feels the same way about Jetty (appropriately), and I would expect Virgo, SMILA, Gyrex, EclipseLink, and Gemini does as well.
And as Christian quite rightly points out, going by popularity (web downloads) leads to confirmation bias: those on the main download page will be/are more popular...at least partially because they are on the main download page.
For me, ECF sounds like an extension to an OSGi container and/or web container. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSGi
All of the runtime projects are potentially 'extensions' to some lower-level 'container' on the stack...even Equinox. I would say that's what makes them appropriately in the runtime project group.
Just look at the project descriptions [1]. Container, platform, framework are the words used for every one...appropriately. If relatively old/generic/established definitions of container are always used, the Eclipse Runtime group will not be perceived as innovative or as diverse as it actually is (my prediction). That hurts all of us I would say.
I don't understand why a rotating/animating set (5 at a time changing every few seconds) could not be used as suggested here https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=493809#c19
Another option would be to have both a rotating set along with a 'all runtime projects' link in the same space.
Scott
From: rt-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:rt-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Scott Lewis
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 5:52 PM
To: rt-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [rt-pmc] Runtime platforms on the eclipse download page
On 6/22/2016 2:15 PM, Ian Skerrett wrote:
RT PMC
The Eclipse Foundation has launch a new eclipse.org/download page. The intent of the new design is to showcase a more diverse Eclipse community.
One major component of the new design is a runtime platform section. The intent of this section is to showcase Eclipse projects that are runtime containers. We unfortunately can't showcase all of our runtime projects, just like we can’t include all of our Eclipse projects on one page.
There is/was a solution to this space limitation proposed here: https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=493809#c19
The current page is showing 4 projects: Jetty, Equinox, Concierge and RAP. I would like to get the RT PMC support/guidance on adding or removing projects from this section. Here is the criteria we would like to use:
A runtime project will be included on the download page based on the following:
1) Project includes a runtime container for running applications.
In my view one problem with this criteria is that the notion of a 'runtime container' and 'application' are open to a lot of interpretation. For example, ECF remote services is not a 'runtime container' in the same sense that Equinox and Concierge are, it is rather a 'runtime container for remote services' if you expand the notion of a 'container' across processes. Further, ECF remote services provides this 'container for remote services' above either Equinox or Concierge (and/or other OSGi framework impls) and using (e.g.) Jetty for transport. Please see
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=493809#c79
for a little more explanation.
As well, 'applications' (vs. 'services/microservices'?) is similarly ambiguous IMHO.
All I'm saying is that 'including a runtime container' and 'running applications' is not very clear... for ECF and many if not most of the EF runtime projects I would say.
4) Project is following the EDP, including Eclipse IP processes
5) Project has a download page that only includes links to Eclipse technology
6) The project PMC supports and verifies the project meets the criteria for inclusion the eclipse.org/downloads page.
Two other projects have been under consideration:
- ECF has requested to be added to the page. It was not added initially since I thought it was based on an OSGi container. Scott has pointed out this is not correct.
Just to be clear: ECF remote services is an impl of the OSGi R5+ Remote Service and Remote Service Admin specifications (enterprise). These specifications assume an OSGi R5+ framework, but they also define what some consider a multi-process 'container for remote services'. This is an example of the ambiguity that I point out about criteria #1 above, as the relationship between these impls and their associated specs is actually layered...e.g. remote services/apps -> ECF/RSA spec -> Jetty/http -> Concierge/framework -> Java/jre
Scott
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