[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index] [List Home]
Re: [ide-dev] Why we dropped Eclipse in favour of IntelliJ | Java Code Geeks

Patches waiting for legal approval on our side.

From: Pascal Rapicault <pascal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: Discussions about the IDE <ide-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Friday, 20 September, 2013 10:25 AM
To: Discussions about the IDE <ide-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ide-dev] Why we dropped Eclipse in favour of IntelliJ | Java Code Geeks

Hey Doug,

Since _javascript_ seems to really matter to you. What are YOU going to do about it?


On 09/20/2013 10:13 AM, Neil Hauge wrote:
I have to quickly correct the record for JPA query support in Eclipse.  It's fairly robust, and goes well beyond syntax validation.  There is in-source validation and code completion, as well as on-the-fly validation in our rich UI editor.  As David suggested I think a lot of this can be attributed to the "getting the right stuff" issue. 

I agree with Doug that good _javascript_ support is a real area of concern. 


On 9/19/2013 7:16 PM, Ian Bull wrote:
On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxx> wrote:
_javascript_ support really worries me. As more and more things use _javascript_ outside the web context, Qt QML, Nashorn, Node.js as examples, we really need good support there to be competitive.

And if we're not competitive, so what? And no, I'm not just being glib. I'm really curious who cares if we're not a good JS IDE, or if people are dropping Eclipse in favour of another java development tool. Who cares that there is a website dedicated to people 'hatting the Eclipse IDE'. Who cares that IntelliJ has better CSS integration, property file integration and JPA query syntax auto-correct. For those of you building IDEs on top of the Eclipse Platform, does your organization care that this particular development team dropped Eclipse in favour of another tool? Does it affect you? And more importantly, are you going to get funding to do something about it?

Of course I know you care Doug. As do David, Wayne, Michael and Andrew and I. We certainly care at a personal level. But unless we are going to compete personally, we need a larger entity to care. Yes I'm being provocative (that appears to be the word of the month). We need to find the organizations that will really feel the pain of this, and ensure that they are stepping up. 

We have an incredible gift. We have a multi-million dollar IDE platform with world class Java support and rock solid stability with a large eco-system. We all understand this code-base very well. This entire code-base is free for us to use, and free for us to run with. 

Let's not pass up this opportunity. Let's find out who really cares, and make this a competitive IDE!



From: Mickael Istria <mistria@xxxxxxxxxx>

Reply-To: Discussions about the IDE <ide-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thursday, 19 September, 2013 2:58 PM
To: "ide-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx" <ide-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>

Subject: Re: [ide-dev] Why we dropped Eclipse in favour of IntelliJ | Java Code Geeks

There are some good arguments I fully agree with.

Things such as having most of JDT warnings disabled by default is a only way to hide the value of Eclipse. Most products show everything they can do by default, and users are free to disable the useless parts. On this topic, some Eclipse projects chose the other way round, which seems to lower the value of the IDE. I'm aware of the argument "people don't like to see hundreds of warnings", but it's the role of an IDE to show them and teach to any developer a better way to write code.
Opened https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=417630

I don't know much of JSDT and VJET, but I heard mainly bad things on the topic of JS development with Eclipse. I guess in current world where everything is _javascript_ for tablet and smartphone, a bad _javascript_ tooling can be a cause of total failure of an IDE. Let's hope some contributors will put efforts on this. It would be interesting to know how much contributors plan to invest in this (to be honest I don't even know for Red Hat...) and see whether some improvement will happen. And it could be interesting to highlight _javascript_ as a "hot topic" and a corner-stone of the future of IDEs and make call for participations, via newsletter, twitter or other.
Could it be something the Foundation could do?

More generally, the most web-centric package is Eclipse JEE. It could make sense to rename it "Eclipse for Web and Mobile Development" to advertise the support of more trendy/modern web technologies such as JS and get further than just JEE.
Opened https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=417632

The "Several minor things" are actually pragmatic feature requests that should be entered in the tracker. I let other people do it ;)
Mickael Istria
Eclipse developer at JBoss, by Red Hat
My blog - My Tweets

ide-dev mailing list

R. Ian Bull | EclipseSource Victoria | +1 250 477 7484
http://eclipsesource.com | http://twitter.com/eclipsesource

ide-dev mailing list

ide-dev mailing list