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Re: [ee4j-community] Charter Feedback - Establishing new projects
All,

There may be a bit of ambiguity and overlap between EE4J and the JEE.next WG (aka JakartaEE WG ;-) because EE4J was immediately created as a TLP at Eclipse. Most other similar cases like Science were established as a WG and many months or years later they graduated to become a TLP.

https://science.eclipse.org/
or under its own domain name
https://www.locationtech.org/

are examples for WGs/TLPs with their own charter and list of projects. And as Eclipse Science recently started even their own separate release train separate from the main Eclipse (IDE) release train in June.

Should a domain like jakarta.ee kindly registered by Tomitribe (like microprofile.io) be the best place for a public entry point, then I imagine it  would be that and behave similar to locationtech.org regarding the web site. Everything else is a WG/TLP similar to EE.next/EE4J.

A few projects that were under Technology also moved e.g. to Science, that's how it may work for certain projects in other areas or even features under MicroProfile (that currently has no formal sub-projecs, but it should be beneficial, then projects and features like MP Rest Client or others could certainly move under EE4J at some point)

Werner 


On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 2:54 PM, <ee4j-community-request@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Charter Feedback - Establishing new projects (Werner Keil)
   2. Re: Charter Feedback - Establishing new projects (Kevin Sutter)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 13:00:57 +0100
From: Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx>
To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Charter Feedback - Establishing new
        projects
Message-ID:
        <CAAGawe1xy3UXG6BvDHbsC-raCfy_-pzJ9GCGgeM6AmHO_7jV1g@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

+1

Eclipse projects get created in "Technology" and if either there or under
another TLP (e.g. Runtime in case of Jetty, etc.) a project is found to
have a different scope, it is usually not a problem to relocate them to
EE4J if that PMC agrees it is a good match.

Werner


On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 11:33 AM, <ee4j-community-request@eclipse.org> wrote:

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>
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Some further feedback on the Working Group Charter
>       (Mark Little)
>    2. Re: Charter Feedback - Establishing new projects (Mark Little)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 10:31:56 +0000
> From: Mark Little <mlittle@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Some further feedback on the Working
>         Group Charter
> Message-ID: <B3F96014-1A67-48F8-91CE-E27D13F07186@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> +1
>
> We should be at least as inclusive as the JCP (and the JCP EC) has become
> over the past few years.
>
> Mark.
>
>
> > On 1 Mar 2018, at 17:47, Martijn Verburg <martijnverburg@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >
> > Membership
> >
> > The existing version states:
> >
> > An entity must be at least a Solutions Member <https://www.eclipse.org/
> membership/become_a_member/membershipTypes.php#solutions>? of the Eclipse
> Foundation, have executed the EE.next Participation Agreement once defined,
> and adhere to the requirements set forth in this Charter to participate.
> >
> > ....
> >
> > I know there's another thread debating membership, but I'd personally
> raise a red flag to needing to be at least a Solutions Member in order to
> participate.  My understanding is that Solutions Members <
> https://www.eclipse.org/membership/become_a_member/
> membershipTypes.php#solutions> are pretty much vendors or orgs planning
> on releasing some commercial software based on an eclipse project.  This
> wouldn't be strictly true for say a Java User Group or Open Source project
> team looking to contribute to EE.next (Jakarta EE).   Perhaps that clause
> needs to be removed?
> >
> > Pretty sure this has been raised and I just missed it, if so my
> apologies again.
> >
>
> ---
> Mark Little
> mlittle@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:mlittle@xxxxxxxxxx>
>
> JBoss, by Red Hat
> Registered Address: Red Hat Ltd, 6700 Cork Airport Business Park, Kinsale
> Road, Co. Cork.
> Registered in the Companies Registration Office, Parnell House, 14 Parnell
> Square, Dublin 1, Ireland, No.304873
> Directors:Michael Cunningham (USA), Vicky Wiseman (USA), Michael O'Neill,
> Keith Phelan, Matt Parson (USA)
>
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> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 10:33:36 +0000
> From: Mark Little <mlittle@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Charter Feedback - Establishing new
>         projects
> Message-ID: <7130B2D6-46E0-4D1B-89C5-5BEC9A193FE2@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> +1
>
> > On 1 Mar 2018, at 19:57, Kevin Sutter <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > Overall, I agree with Steve's assessment.  But...  I don't think it's up
> to the EE4J PMC to propose new projects.  Anybody can do an Eclipse project
> proposal.  When a proposal is submitted, a top-level project is selected.
> The PMC for that project will then be notified and asked to review it.  So,
> if somebody wants to create a new EE4J sub-project, they could submit a
> proposal to the EE4J PMC, and it would be evaluated.  If the PMC approves
> it then it would be submitted to the Eclipse team for provisioning of the
> new project.
> >
> > For now, all of the "Java EE" projects are being proposed by the EE4J
> PMC (specifically, Dmitry is doing most of that leg work, thank you!).
> But, after Jakarta EE gets established, then I would not expect that
> responsibility to fall on the PMC shoulders.  We would become a bottleneck
> if that were to happen.  We need more participation from the community and
> new project proposals would be part of that activity.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > Kevin Sutter
> > STSM, MicroProfile and Java EE architect
> > e-mail:  sutter@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:sutter@xxxxxxxxxx>     Twitter:
> @kwsutter
> > phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)
> > LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter <
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter>
> >
> >
> >
> > From:        "Steve Millidge (Payara)" <steve.millidge@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:steve.millidge@payara.fish>>
> > To:        EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:ee4j-community@eclipse.org>>
> > Date:        03/01/2018 12:37 PM
> > Subject:        Re: [ee4j-community] Charter Feedback - Establishing new
> projects
> > Sent by:        ee4j-community-bounces@eclipse.org <mailto:
> ee4j-community-bounces@eclipse.org>
> >
> >
> >
> > Personal view here but my understanding is that it is for the PMC of the
> EE4J top level project to decide on the creation of a new sub-project.
> >
> > Again personal view my suggestion is get a bunch of people interested
> start prototyping some code, drafting an api etc. Possibly in a sandbox
> repo within EE4J. If it gets a level of traction ask the PMC for a formal
> sub-project.
> >
> > When the new api has reached a level of maturity that it has an agreed
> first cut API, TCK and Specs then it would be considered for inclusion in
> the future overall Jakarta EE platform by the Working Group.
> >
> > Personally I don?t see the WG getting involved until a level of maturity
> is reached.
> >
> > Others may have a different view as this is still all being worked out.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > From: ee4j-community-bounces@eclipse.org <ee4j-community-bounces@
> eclipse.org> On Behalf Of John D. Ament
> > Sent: 01 March 2018 18:18
> > To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: [ee4j-community] Charter Feedback - Establishing new projects
> >
> > While reviewing the charter (btw is there a public link somewhere to the
> latest? I only see it via email) I had one question pop up.
> >
> > How do new projects get established for the working groups?
> >
> > Right now we have a slew of projects coming in from the initial
> donation, at some point we're going to want to dive into newer
> technologies.  Some features may make sense to go into existing projects,
> but others may make more sense to start to become their own project; with
> their own APIs, specs and TCKs.  Which committees are responsible for
> reviewing and establishing these new projects, as well as determining the
> lines between two projects?
> >
> > John_______________________________________________
> > ee4j-community mailing list
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> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/ee4j-community>
> ---
> Mark Little
> mlittle@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:mlittle@xxxxxxxxxx>
>
> JBoss, by Red Hat
> Registered Address: Red Hat Ltd, 6700 Cork Airport Business Park, Kinsale
> Road, Co. Cork.
> Registered in the Companies Registration Office, Parnell House, 14 Parnell
> Square, Dublin 1, Ireland, No.304873
> Directors:Michael Cunningham (USA), Vicky Wiseman (USA), Michael O'Neill,
> Keith Phelan, Matt Parson (USA)
>
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 07:54:26 -0600
From: "Kevin Sutter" <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Charter Feedback - Establishing new
        projects
Message-ID:
        <OF2283C89D.42EC2923-ON86258244.004C43BF-86258244.004C6501@xxxxxxxx.collabserv.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

John,
>From an Eclipse Working Group perspective, there is only one working group
being proposed -- EE.next Working Group.  And, this covers all of the EE4J
projects.  The term "working group" may be overloaded in other contexts.
But, the charter being discussed is for a this particular working group
for EE.next (Jakarta EE).


---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, MicroProfile and Java EE architect
e-mail:  sutter@xxxxxxxxxx     Twitter:  @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter



From:   "John D. Ament" <john.d.ament@xxxxxxxxx>
To:     EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:   03/02/2018 05:07 AM
Subject:        Re: [ee4j-community] Charter Feedback - Establishing new
projects
Sent by:        ee4j-community-bounces@eclipse.org



I'm not sure what you're implying there.  Reading the FAQ doesn't give me
any inclination that there's a single working group for the entire Jakarta
EE vs a working group per related technology.  In addition, considering
that the link charter is not to up to date with what has been shared via
email, I do have concerns over its completeness.  It was also heavily
implied in other conversations (I've been involved in) that there would be
multiple working groups, so it seems odd to now hear there's a single
working group.

John

On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 4:47 PM Steve Millidge (Payara)
<steve.millidge@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
BTW I would recommend reading the Proposed Working Group FAQ it clarified
things a lot in my mind.
https://www.eclipse.org/org/workinggroups/eclipse_ee_next_faq.php

From: ee4j-community-bounces@eclipse.org <
ee4j-community-bounces@eclipse.org> On Behalf Of John D. Ament
Sent: 01 March 2018 21:15

To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Charter Feedback - Establishing new projects

So if a new working group is to be established, it would just come through
as a new project request?
On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 2:58 PM Kevin Sutter <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Overall, I agree with Steve's assessment.  But...  I don't think it's up
to the EE4J PMC to propose new projects.  Anybody can do an Eclipse
project proposal.  When a proposal is submitted, a top-level project is
selected.  The PMC for that project will then be notified and asked to
review it.  So, if somebody wants to create a new EE4J sub-project, they
could submit a proposal to the EE4J PMC, and it would be evaluated.  If
the PMC approves it then it would be submitted to the Eclipse team for
provisioning of the new project.

For now, all of the "Java EE" projects are being proposed by the EE4J PMC
(specifically, Dmitry is doing most of that leg work, thank you!).  But,
after Jakarta EE gets established, then I would not expect that
responsibility to fall on the PMC shoulders.  We would become a bottleneck
if that were to happen.  We need more participation from the community and
new project proposals would be part of that activity.

---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, MicroProfile and Java EE architect
e-mail:  sutter@xxxxxxxxxx     Twitter:  @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter



From:        "Steve Millidge (Payara)" <steve.millidge@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To:        EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:        03/01/2018 12:37 PM
Subject:        Re: [ee4j-community] Charter Feedback - Establishing new
projects
Sent by:        ee4j-community-bounces@eclipse.org




Personal view here but my understanding is that it is for the PMC of the
EE4J top level project to decide on the creation of a new sub-project.

Again personal view my suggestion is get a bunch of people interested
start prototyping some code, drafting an api etc. Possibly in a sandbox
repo within EE4J. If it gets a level of traction ask the PMC for a formal
sub-project.

When the new api has reached a level of maturity that it has an agreed
first cut API, TCK and Specs then it would be considered for inclusion in
the future overall Jakarta EE platform by the Working Group.

Personally I don?t see the WG getting involved until a level of maturity
is reached.

Others may have a different view as this is still all being worked out.

Steve

From: ee4j-community-bounces@eclipse.org <
ee4j-community-bounces@eclipse.org> On Behalf Of John D. Ament
Sent: 01 March 2018 18:18
To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [ee4j-community] Charter Feedback - Establishing new projects

While reviewing the charter (btw is there a public link somewhere to the
latest? I only see it via email) I had one question pop up.

How do new projects get established for the working groups?

Right now we have a slew of projects coming in from the initial donation,
at some point we're going to want to dive into newer technologies.  Some
features may make sense to go into existing projects, but others may make
more sense to start to become their own project; with their own APIs,
specs and TCKs.  Which committees are responsible for reviewing and
establishing these new projects, as well as determining the lines between
two projects?

John_______________________________________________
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