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Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Neon.3 Update Problems: To Fix and How to Fix?

Ed Merks wrote:

â If nothing requires a given bundle, I would expect that bundle to be 
â removed from the profile, but I don't see the problematic bundles being 
â removed...

If Iâm not mistaken, the current solution with Neon.3a is reverting the problematic http bundle to the Neon.2 version; so itâs supposed to be older (lower version) than Neon.3 .

Therefore, Iâd expect that âupdatingâ from neon.3 which has the newer bundle to Neon.3a which requires the older one would probably ignore the older bundle and wire the newer one â unless something explicitly removes / uninstalls the broken Neon.3 variant.

Jeff, are you reasonably confident that a p2.inf command to uninstall the Neon.3 bundle would only perform that operation at the time the Neon.3a update is installed â and not potentially at a later time?

I see some risk that 3rd party plugins which want to bring in their own http bundle would not be able to do so because weâd uninstall their payload â can we be reasonably sure that this scenario canât occur, for example by specifying an exact 4-digit version in the p2.inf to remove the broken bundle ?

IMO, the âUpdate Neon.3 to Neon.3aâ workflow is less important than fixing the âNeon.[012] -> Neon.3aâ workflow.
So if in doubt, Iâd rather not take too much risk enabling the 3 -> 3a update â

Thanks,
Martin
--
Martin Oberhuber, SMTS / Product Owner â Development Tools, Wind River

On 25/04/17 17:19, "cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Ed Merks" <cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of ed.merks@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

    Fred,
    
    No I didn't try that.  It's much harder to try that.  Oomph itself is 
    broken, so I can't run setup tasks.  Check for Updates finds no updates 
    because I installed all the categories and their IUs don't have updated 
    versions.   I tried explicitly installing Docker so that it would do an 
    update, but that didn't not solve the wiring problem.  I also running 
    the p2 task in an IDE with Oomph 1.8 where I can run setup tasks 
    (because Oomph's dependency on userstorage is optional in 1.8) and where 
    the wiring problems also occurred so that more things got updated, but 
    this also did not resolve the wiring problem.  So it's not clear if 
    updates to an already -broken IDE will fix that IDE; it doesn't look so 
    promising, though I don't understand why that wouldn't work.   If 
    nothing requires a given bundle, I would expect that bundle to be 
    removed from the profile, but I don't see the problematic bundles being 
    removed...
    
    Regards,
    Ed
    
    
    On 25.04.2017 16:41, Frederic Gurr wrote:
    > Thanks Ed.
    >
    > That sounds promising. Did you also test updating a broken ELWMS with
    > the new repo?
    >
    > I'm currently trying to reproduce the error with EPP packages, but so
    > far updating a Neon.2 package to Neon.3 (with "Check for Updates") did
    > not result in a broken MPC. Not sure what I'm missing.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Fred
    >
    > On 25.04.2017 16:30, Ed Merks wrote:
    >> Fred,
    >>
    >> Installing the Eierlegende Wollmilchsau with this additional repository
    >> in the p2 task's repository list results in an installation without
    >> wiring problems.
    >>
    >> The profile of the installation contains version 2.3.0.20170421191 of
    >> org.eclipse.linuxtools.docker.core with is indeed the version available
    >> in
    >> https://hudson.eclipse.org/simrel/job/simrel.neon.3_respin.runaggregator.BUILD__CLEAN/3/artifact/aggregation/final
    >> so I think this is a good demonstration that installations creation from
    >> this repository's contents will not have the wiring problems we've been
    >> seeing in Neon.3.
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >> Ed
    >>
    >>
    >>> Ed,
    >>>
    >>> The temporary update site URL is:
    >>>
    >>> https://hudson.eclipse.org/simrel/job/simrel.neon.3_respin.runaggregator.BUILD__CLEAN/3/artifact/aggregation/final
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Regards,
    >>>
    >>> Fred
    >>>
    >>> On 25.04.2017 15:13, Ed Merks wrote:
    >>>> Fred,
    >>>>
    >>>> What update site URL contains these results?
    >>>>
    >>>> Regards,
    >>>> Ed
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> On 25.04.2017 14:28, Frederic Gurr wrote:
    >>>>> Thanks Jeff,
    >>>>>
    >>>>> This is the comparison of the non-unique versions list:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> neon3_respin aggregation build 20.04.
    >>>>> (https://hudson.eclipse.org/simrel/job/simrel.neon.3_respin.runaggregator.BUILD__CLEAN/2/artifact/aggregation/final/buildInfo/reporeports/reports/nonUniqueVersions.txt):
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> org.apache.httpcomponents.httpclient
    >>>>>       4.3.6.v201411290715
    >>>>>       4.5.2.v20161115-1643
    >>>>>       4.3.6.v201511171540
    >>>>>       4.2.6.v201311072007
    >>>>> org.apache.httpcomponents.httpcore
    >>>>>       4.3.3.v201411290715
    >>>>>       4.4.6.v20170210-0925
    >>>>>       4.2.5.v201311072007
    >>>>>       neon3_respin aggregation build 25.04.
    >>>>> (https://hudson.eclipse.org/simrel/job/simrel.neon.3_respin.runaggregator.BUILD__CLEAN/3/artifact/aggregation/final/buildInfo/reporeports/reports/nonUniqueVersions.txt):
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> org.apache.httpcomponents.httpclient
    >>>>>       4.3.6.v201411290715
    >>>>>       4.3.6.v201511171540
    >>>>>       4.2.6.v201311072007
    >>>>> org.apache.httpcomponents.httpcore
    >>>>>       4.3.3.v201411290715
    >>>>>       4.2.5.v201311072007
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> So o.a.h.httpclient version 4.5.2 and o.a.h.httpcore version 4.4.6 are
    >>>>> not in the repo any more.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> @All: Can someone confirm that this fixes the update problem (earlier
    >>>>> version to Neon.3)?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> If it is confirmed to work, we have a fix for users that have not
    >>>>> upgraded to Neon.3 yet. Users that already upgraded are unaffected by
    >>>>> this. They still need to wait for a "wiring issue" fix.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Regards,
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Fred
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> On 21.04.2017 23:00, Jeff Johnston wrote:
    >>>>>> Just to confirm that the change has been merged to the Neon.3_respin
    >>>>>> branch.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> -- Jeff J.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 4:11 PM, Jeff Johnston <jjohnstn@xxxxxxxxxx
    >>>>>> <mailto:jjohnstn@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>        I have done another respin.  In this case, I rebuilt the Linux
    >>>>>> Tools
    >>>>>>        plug-ins to use the older version
    >>>>>>        of docker-client and its dependencies which were used in
    >>>>>> Neon.2.  I
    >>>>>>        have back-versioned the
    >>>>>>        Docker tooling plug-ins to 2.3.0 with the current date.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>        I have just pushed to gerrit for Neon.3_respin branch.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>        https://git.eclipse.org/r/#/c/95501/
    >>>>>>        <https://git.eclipse.org/r/#/c/95501/>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>        If no-one objects, I will merge into the branch.
    >>>>>> Verification is
    >>>>>>        already successful.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>        -- Jeff J.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>        On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Jeff Johnston
    >>>>>> <jjohnstn@xxxxxxxxxx
    >>>>>>        <mailto:jjohnstn@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>            Marcel,
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>            Since the respin didn't fix the problem, we will try
    >>>>>> reverting
    >>>>>>            the docker-client dependency and keeping as much of the
    >>>>>> added
    >>>>>>            Neon.3 functionality as possible
    >>>>>>            in place and cutting another point release.  I will let the
    >>>>>> list
    >>>>>>            know when I have something in place.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>            -- Jeff J.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>            On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 6:38 AM, Daniel Megert
    >>>>>>            <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx>>
    >>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                Adding eclipse.org-planning-council@xxxxxxxxxxx
    >>>>>>                <mailto:eclipse.org-planning-council@xxxxxxxxxxx> to
    >>>>>> this
    >>>>>>                thread.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                Dani
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                From:        "Dr. Marcel Bruch"
    >>>>>> <marcel.bruch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    >>>>>>                <mailto:marcel.bruch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
    >>>>>>                To:        Cross project issues
    >>>>>>                <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    >>>>>>                <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
    >>>>>>                Date:        21.04.2017 10:17
    >>>>>>                Subject:        Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Neon.3
    >>>>>> Update
    >>>>>>                Problems: To Fix and        How to Fix?
    >>>>>>                Sent by:
    >>>>>> cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    >>>>>>                <mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
    >>>>>>              
    >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                Hi,
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                Iâll briefly summarize the discussion we had at the AC
    >>>>>>                yesterday:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                Given that we donât know how the OSGI resolver will
    >>>>>> behave
    >>>>>>                (even after Tom back-ported a fix to Neon) it would be
    >>>>>>                preferred to just have the Apache HTTP*** versions in
    >>>>>> Neon.3
    >>>>>>                that were already in Neon.2. This would to some extend
    >>>>>>                âensure" that we are "at least as as stable as Neon.2â.
    >>>>>> This
    >>>>>>                would require us to rollback the changes that introduced
    >>>>>> the
    >>>>>>                latest version of HTTPClient. As far as I know this
    >>>>>> would
    >>>>>>                especially affect the Docker Tooling. (maybe more
    >>>>>> changes
    >>>>>>                than that are needed)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                My question to the *Docker Tooling project lead*: Is it
    >>>>>>                possible to rollback this last minute change and
    >>>>>> postpone it
    >>>>>>                to Oxygen for the sake of making EGit, MPC, Oomph,
    >>>>>> USS, and
    >>>>>>                Code Recommenders work reliably again - and giving us
    >>>>>> more
    >>>>>>                trust that we wonât get into trouble with Neon.3? The
    >>>>>>                simplest solution may be to contribute the docker
    >>>>>> tooling
    >>>>>>                from Neon.2 in Neon.3. WDYT?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                Marcel
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                On 20 Apr 2017, at 18:54, Frederic Gurr
    >>>>>>                <_frederic.gurr@xxxxxxxxxxxx
    >>>>>>                <mailto:frederic.gurr@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                I can see
    >>>>>>              
    >>>>>> org.apache.httpcomponents.httpclient_4.5.2.v20170210-0925 in
    >>>>>>              
    >>>>>> /home/data/httpd/_download.eclipse.org/linuxtools/update-docker-2.3.1/plugins_
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>              
    >>>>>> <http://download.eclipse.org/linuxtools/update-docker-2.3.1/plugins>,
    >>>>>>                but it's definitely not in the aggregated repo.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                On 20.04.2017 18:31, Jeff Johnston wrote:
    >>>>>>                Fred,
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                The version of httpclient also changed in our
    >>>>>>                update-docker-2.3.1 repo from:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>               
    >>>>>> org.apache.httpcomponents.httpclient_4.5.2.v20161115-1643
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                to:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>               
    >>>>>> org.apache.httpcomponents.httpclient_4.5.2.v20170210-0925
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                Not sure why this change isn't being seen as well.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                -- Jeff J.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Frederic Gurr
    >>>>>>                <_frederic.gurr@xxxxxxxxxxxx
    >>>>>>              
    >>>>>> <mailto:frederic.gurr@xxxxxxxxxxx><_mailto:frederic.gurr@xxxxxxxxxxxx
    >>>>>>                <mailto:frederic.gurr@xxxxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  Thanks Jeff,
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  I ran a SimRel aggregation build. The only change I
    >>>>>> can
    >>>>>>                see in the list
    >>>>>>                  of "Non Unique Versions used in repository" is that a
    >>>>>>                different version
    >>>>>>                  of org.apache.httpcomponents.httpcore is now used.
    >>>>>> Instead of
    >>>>>>                  4.4.4.v20161115-1643 it's now 4.4.6.v20170210-0925.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  I compared
    >>>>>>                            
    >>>>>> _http://download.eclipse.org/releases/neon/201703231000/buildInfo/reporeports/reports/nonUniqueVersions.txt_
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>              
    >>>>>> <http://download.eclipse.org/releases/neon/201703231000/buildInfo/reporeports/reports/nonUniqueVersions.txt>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                            
    >>>>>> <_http://download.eclipse.org/releases/neon/201703231000/buildInfo/reporeports/reports/nonUniqueVersions.txt_
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>              
    >>>>>> <http://download.eclipse.org/releases/neon/201703231000/buildInfo/reporeports/reports/nonUniqueVersions.txt>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  and
    >>>>>>                            
    >>>>>> _https://hudson.eclipse.org/simrel/job/simrel.neon.3_respin.runaggregator.BUILD__CLEAN/ws/aggregation/final/buildInfo/reporeports/reports/nonUniqueVersions.txt_
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>              
    >>>>>> <https://hudson.eclipse.org/simrel/job/simrel.neon.3_respin.runaggregator.BUILD__CLEAN/ws/aggregation/final/buildInfo/reporeports/reports/nonUniqueVersions.txt>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                            
    >>>>>> <_https://hudson.eclipse.org/simrel/job/simrel.neon.3_respin.runaggregator.BUILD__CLEAN/ws/aggregation/final/buildInfo/reporeports/reports/nonUniqueVersions.txt_
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>              
    >>>>>> <https://hudson.eclipse.org/simrel/job/simrel.neon.3_respin.runaggregator.BUILD__CLEAN/ws/aggregation/final/buildInfo/reporeports/reports/nonUniqueVersions.txt>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  @All: is that the intended result?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  Regards,
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  Fred
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  On 19.04.2017 20:21, Jeff Johnston wrote:
    >>>>>>                Hi Fred,
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                I have just pushed a change to gerrit:
    >>>>>>                   _https://git.eclipse.org/r/#/c/95308/_
    >>>>>>                <https://git.eclipse.org/r/#/c/95308/>
    >>>>>>                  <_https://git.eclipse.org/r/#/c/95308/_
    >>>>>>                <https://git.eclipse.org/r/#/c/95308/>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                I only changed the docker repository and left the other
    >>>>>>                Linux Tools
    >>>>>>                features alone
    >>>>>>                since they were only bumped as part of the point
    >>>>>> release to
    >>>>>>                fix the
    >>>>>>                Docker Tooling plug-ins.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                I assume I can merge the patch if the gerrit
    >>>>>> verification is
    >>>>>>                successful.  If this is wrong,
    >>>>>>                let me know.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                -- Jeff J.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Frederic Gurr
    >>>>>>                <_frederic.gurr@xxxxxxxxxxxx
    >>>>>>              
    >>>>>> <mailto:frederic.gurr@xxxxxxxxxxx><_mailto:frederic.gurr@xxxxxxxxxxxx
    >>>>>>                <mailto:frederic.gurr@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
    >>>>>>                   <_mailto:frederic.gurr@xxxxxxxxxxxx
    >>>>>>                <mailto:frederic.gurr@xxxxxxxxxxx>
    >>>>>>                  <_mailto:frederic.gurr@xxxxxxxxxxxx
    >>>>>>                <mailto:frederic.gurr@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  Hi,
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  Can you provide a patch for the SimRel build (branch
    >>>>>>                   "Neon.3_respin")
    >>>>>>                   that references the new version?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  Regards,
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  Fred
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  On 19.04.2017 17:27, Jeff Johnston wrote:
    >>>>>>                Hi Ed,
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                Linux tools spun a 5.3.1 release which now has a 2.3.1
    >>>>>>                   version of
    >>>>>>                   docker
    >>>>>>                tooling.  The Linux tools download site has
    >>>>>>                   update-docker-2.3.1 and
    >>>>>>                update-docker, both which have 2.3.1 versions of the
    >>>>>> docker.core
    >>>>>>                   plug-in
    >>>>>>                and docker feature.  Not sure why you are not seeing
    >>>>>> this.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                -- Jeff J.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Ed Merks
    >>>>>>                   <_ed.merks@xxxxxxxxxx
    >>>>>>                <mailto:ed.merks@xxxxxxxxx><_mailto:ed.merks@xxxxxxxxxx
    >>>>>>                <mailto:ed.merks@xxxxxxxxx>>
    >>>>>>                  
    >>>>>> <_mailto:ed.merks@xxxxxxxxxx<_mailto:ed.merks@xxxxxxxxxx
    >>>>>>                <mailto:ed.merks@xxxxxxxxx>>>
    >>>>>>                <_mailto:ed.merks@xxxxxxxxxx<_mailto:ed.merks@xxxxxxxxxx
    >>>>>>                <mailto:ed.merks@xxxxxxxxx>>
    >>>>>>                  
    >>>>>> <_mailto:ed.merks@xxxxxxxxxx<_mailto:ed.merks@xxxxxxxxxx
    >>>>>>                <mailto:ed.merks@xxxxxxxxx>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  Frederic,
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  There seem to have been no notes/minutes taken during
    >>>>>>                   the meeting:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                              
    >>>>>> _https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017_
    >>>>>>               
    >>>>>> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017>
    >>>>>>                
    >>>>>> <_https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017_
    >>>>>>               
    >>>>>> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017>>
    >>>>>>                             
    >>>>>> <_https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017_
    >>>>>>               
    >>>>>> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017>
    >>>>>>                             
    >>>>>> <_https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017_
    >>>>>>               
    >>>>>> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017>>>
    >>>>>>                             
    >>>>>> <_https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017_
    >>>>>>               
    >>>>>> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017>
    >>>>>>                             
    >>>>>> <_https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017_
    >>>>>>               
    >>>>>> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017>>
    >>>>>>                             
    >>>>>> <_https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017_
    >>>>>>               
    >>>>>> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017>
    >>>>>>                             
    >>>>>> <_https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017_
    >>>>>>              
    >>>>>> <https://wiki.eclipse.org/Planning_Council/April_05_2017>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  I recall agreeing to provide steps for reproducing the
    >>>>>>                   problem so
    >>>>>>                   that Thomas Watson could test if the wiring
    >>>>>> resolution
    >>>>>>                   fix he made
    >>>>>>                   for Oxygen also solves the problem for Neon.3.
    >>>>>> The fact
    >>>>>>                   that he
    >>>>>>                   encountered "the mirroring problem" didn't help in
    >>>>>> that
    >>>>>>                   regard:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                   
    >>>>>> _https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213_
    >>>>>>                <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213>
    >>>>>>                  
    >>>>>> <_https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213_
    >>>>>>                <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213>>
    >>>>>>                  
    >>>>>> <_https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213_
    >>>>>>                <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213>
    >>>>>>                  
    >>>>>> <_https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213_
    >>>>>>                <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213>>>
    >>>>>>                  
    >>>>>> <_https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213_
    >>>>>>                <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213>
    >>>>>>                  
    >>>>>> <_https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213_
    >>>>>>                <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213>>
    >>>>>>                  
    >>>>>> <_https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213_
    >>>>>>                <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213>
    >>>>>>                  
    >>>>>> <_https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213_
    >>>>>>               
    >>>>>> <https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=515213>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  In the end, he sent me a note saying (and I quote):
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                   I see that now there is the same number of
    >>>>>>                   httpcomponents bundles
    >>>>>>                   as there was in the messed up Oxygen M6 builds.  But
    >>>>>>                   here my back
    >>>>>>                   port of the resolver fix does not seem to have fixed
    >>>>>>                   the issue.
    >>>>>>                   I'm unsure if that is because it gave up with the
    >>>>>> sheer
    >>>>>>                   number of
    >>>>>>                   bundles or if something else is going wrong.  But at
    >>>>>>                   this point
    >>>>>>                   the backport of the resolver fix does not seem to be
    >>>>>>                   the solution
    >>>>>>                   to the problem.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  I assumed (wrongly I guess) that Thomas would
    >>>>>>                   investigate a more
    >>>>>>                   general fix to address the wiring problem.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  In the end, I also wasn't sure which version of the
    >>>>>> docker
    >>>>>>                   tools is
    >>>>>>                   proposed for contribution to Neon.3a.  I tried to
    >>>>>> search for
    >>>>>>                   update
    >>>>>>                   sites containing it like this:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  Nothing looks like a new version of 2.3.  Goodness
    >>>>>> knows
    >>>>>>                   where one
    >>>>>>                   should find what's being proposed for contribution...
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  In any case, the proposed "solution" (A) really just
    >>>>>>                   changes the
    >>>>>>                   version of httpclient to be one that's not broken
    >>>>>> (missing
    >>>>>>                  packages), but it doesn't change the wiring problem in
    >>>>>> any
    >>>>>>                  fundamental way.  There will still be the four
    >>>>>> versions that
    >>>>>>                   can all
    >>>>>>                   be installed simultaneously, so we really should
    >>>>>> expect
    >>>>>>                   the same
    >>>>>>                   wiring problem(s).  In fact, I believe Oxygen M6 has
    >>>>>>                   effectively the
    >>>>>>                   same four httpcomponents.httpclient bundle as does
    >>>>>>                   Neon.3, so
    >>>>>>                   I'm a
    >>>>>>                   little suspicious whether the wiring problem is in
    >>>>>> fact
    >>>>>>                   really
    >>>>>>                   fixed
    >>>>>>                   even for Oxygen.  We won't know until M7 and that's a
    >>>>>>                   month away.
    >>>>>>                   It doesn't give me warm fuzzy feelings.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  So at this point it remains unclear the nature of the
    >>>>>> wiring
    >>>>>>                  problem(s).  Is it a bug? Is it fixable? Does the
    >>>>>>                   knowledge, will,
    >>>>>>                   and capacity to fix it exist?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  Without a fix to the wiring problem I think we can
    >>>>>>                   eliminate A
    >>>>>>                   as a
    >>>>>>                   solution, leaving B, C, and D (i.e., focus on problem
    >>>>>>                   avoidance
    >>>>>>                   approaches).  But I think if the wiring problem is a
    >>>>>>                   bug, it will
    >>>>>>                   come back, and it will raise its ugly head again when
    >>>>>> users
    >>>>>>                   install
    >>>>>>                   various technologies from various sources.  To my
    >>>>>>                   thinking, fixing
    >>>>>>                   the bug seems important.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  Regards,
    >>>>>>                  Ed
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  On 19.04.2017 12:49, Frederic Gurr wrote:
    >>>>>>                   Hi Ed,
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  In the last planning-council meeting you offered to
    >>>>>>                   evaluate
    >>>>>>                   if the
    >>>>>>                   fixed Linux Tools package works as expected and if
    >>>>>>                   there are
    >>>>>>                   still
    >>>>>>                   wiring issues.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  Can you give us an update on the current state?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  Regards,
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  Fred
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  On 31.03.2017 11:14, Ed Merks wrote:
    >>>>>>                   Hi,
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  The original thread is fractured into many threads
    >>>>>> so its
    >>>>>>                   kind of
    >>>>>>                   impossible to follow each thread with a reply but
    >>>>>> I'll try
    >>>>>>                   at the bottom
    >>>>>>                   of this note, i.e., below the ===========
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  But before doing that, I'd like to re-focus on the
    >>>>>> most
    >>>>>>                   important
    >>>>>>                   questions: *We currently have a problem with Neon.3,
    >>>>>>                   will we
    >>>>>>                   fix it, and
    >>>>>>                   if so how will we fix it?*
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  The discussion has quickly digressed (constructively)
    >>>>>> into
    >>>>>>                   solving the
    >>>>>>                   issue of how Orbit dependencies should be managed by
    >>>>>>                   projects and by the
    >>>>>>                   release train.  Unfortunately I see this as a world
    >>>>>> hunger
    >>>>>>                   issue; not
    >>>>>>                   one that is easily addressed and I believe not one we
    >>>>>> can
    >>>>>>                   wait for in
    >>>>>>                   order to solve the Neon.3 problem.  Let's face it,
    >>>>>>                   we've not
    >>>>>>                   been able
    >>>>>>                   to produce a proper Oxygen milestone in months, we
    >>>>>> still
    >>>>>>                   don't have one
    >>>>>>                   now, and we won't have one until next month, we hope.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  For Neon we've done three maintenance releases. Neon.1
    >>>>>>                   needed a respin
    >>>>>>                   and Neon.3 looks to be in need of the same thing.
    >>>>>> Clearly
    >>>>>>                   something is
    >>>>>>                   seriously wrong.  But if we spend our time on solving
    >>>>>> the
    >>>>>>                   Orbit world
    >>>>>>                   hunger issue, will we arrive at a solution in time
    >>>>>> for
    >>>>>>                   Oxygen, let alone
    >>>>>>                   in time to fix Neon.3?  I am very, very doubtful.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  As another data point, if I install the
    >>>>>>                   egg-laying-wool-milk-pig for
    >>>>>>                   Neon.3.  The following happens.  I'm prompted to
    >>>>>>                   accept this
    >>>>>>                   license:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                      Red Hat, Inc. licenses these features and plugins
    >>>>>>                   to you
    >>>>>>                   under
    >>>>>>                       certain open source licenses (or aggregations of
    >>>>>> such
    >>>>>>                   licenses),
    >>>>>>                       which in a particular case may include the
    >>>>>> Eclipse
    >>>>>>                   Public License,
    >>>>>>                       the GNU Lesser General Public License, and/or
    >>>>>> certain
    >>>>>>                   other open
    >>>>>>                       source licenses. For precise licensing details,
    >>>>>>                   consult the
    >>>>>>                       corresponding source code, or contact Red Hat,
    >>>>>>                   Attn: General
    >>>>>>                       Counsel, 100 East Davie St., Raleigh NC 27601
    >>>>>> USA.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  I'm not sure how this license slipped into the release
    >>>>>>                   train.   Aren't
    >>>>>>                   there checks for this?  (Sorry to digress, but
    >>>>>> this is
    >>>>>>                   also
    >>>>>>                   unacceptable.)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  Launching the final installation comes up like this:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  Clearly a disgusting mess, but I've mentioned that
    >>>>>> before
    >>>>>>                   and the same
    >>>>>>                   projects are still doing the same bad things, so we
    >>>>>>                   clearly
    >>>>>>                   all accept
    >>>>>>                   this situation as normal.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  The most important point here is the error log (first
    >>>>>>                   attachment) is
    >>>>>>                   full of exactly the problem indications (bundle
    >>>>>> wiring
    >>>>>>                   problems) we
    >>>>>>                   should have expected from the Neon.3 repository's
    >>>>>>                   contents,
    >>>>>>                   if someone
    >>>>>>                   were to install an arbitrary combination of the
    >>>>>>                   repository's
    >>>>>>                   contents.
    >>>>>>                   It's really not so hard to test this!
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  If I create the same installation with my local build
    >>>>>>                   of the
    >>>>>>                   Oomph 1.8
    >>>>>>                   installer---which installs my locally built
    >>>>>> version of
    >>>>>>                   Oomph
    >>>>>>                   1.8 so the
    >>>>>>                   Oomph setup plugins are no longer disabled because I
    >>>>>>                   made the
    >>>>>>                   userstorage dependency optional and eliminated the
    >>>>>> strict
    >>>>>>                   <=4.4 upper
    >>>>>>                   bound constraints on httpclient, which was such a bad
    >>>>>>                   idea I
    >>>>>>                   can almost
    >>>>>>                   have a canary to think this done to solve a problem
    >>>>>>                   with no
    >>>>>>                   anticipation
    >>>>>>                   of the problems it would cause---then I can visit all
    >>>>>> the
    >>>>>>                   preference
    >>>>>>                   pages producing the second attached much larger
    >>>>>> log. It
    >>>>>>                   seems clear
    >>>>>>                   that proper testing really doesn't happen for far too
    >>>>>> many
    >>>>>>                   projects on
    >>>>>>                   the train.  With distributed responsibility, no
    >>>>>> one is
    >>>>>>                   really responsible...
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  ==================================
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  Orbit Issues
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  1) Respinning Linux Tools against Oxygen Mx seems
    >>>>>> to miss
    >>>>>>                   the point that
    >>>>>>                   we should only distribute released versions of
    >>>>>>                   bundles,  so
    >>>>>>                   no Neon
    >>>>>>                   build should redistribute any unreleased version of
    >>>>>>                   anything.  If a new
    >>>>>>                   version of something is needed for security
    >>>>>> reasons or
    >>>>>>                   other
    >>>>>>                   reasons, it
    >>>>>>                   should be released first.  And doing that in a
    >>>>>> maintenance
    >>>>>>                   train without
    >>>>>>                   testing the overall impact is clearly something we
    >>>>>> should
    >>>>>>                   never do again
    >>>>>>                   (without waving a bunch of red flags of warning). And
    >>>>>>                   as Martin
    >>>>>>                   Oberhuber asks, is nothing in place to check for
    >>>>>> this?  So
    >>>>>>                   suppose we do
    >>>>>>                   respin with a fixed released version, like what we
    >>>>>>                   have for
    >>>>>>                   Oxygen M6,
    >>>>>>                   then most likely we'd still have the problems we
    >>>>>> have in
    >>>>>>                   Oxygen M6 so
    >>>>>>                   we'd need a fix to the resolver in Neon.  Better
    >>>>>> would
    >>>>>>                   seem
    >>>>>>                   to respin
    >>>>>>                   with the old version(s) of the Orbit bundles, but
    >>>>>>                   somehow we
    >>>>>>                   can never
    >>>>>>                   delete the broken version from Neon and because it
    >>>>>> has a
    >>>>>>                   higher version
    >>>>>>                   number is likely to slip back in unexpected (though
    >>>>>>                   hopefully not, given
    >>>>>>                   that features have pinned their bundle versions).
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  2) Don't include Orbit bundles in your project's
    >>>>>> features.
    >>>>>>                   Sounds like
    >>>>>>                   a great idea, but begs endless questions, and while
    >>>>>>                   solving
    >>>>>>                   a problem
    >>>>>>                   might well introduce more new problems than it
    >>>>>>                   solves.  The
    >>>>>>                   first
    >>>>>>                   question (as Carsten points out) is how do these
    >>>>>>                   things end
    >>>>>>                   up in a
    >>>>>>                   repository, and if they are in a repository somehow,
    >>>>>>                   how are
    >>>>>>                   they
    >>>>>>                   categorized?  It's hard to get them in and once you
    >>>>>>                   do, they're
    >>>>>>                   categorized poorly.  The next question is, how do
    >>>>>> they end
    >>>>>>                   up in the
    >>>>>>                   release train, if the projects that need them don't
    >>>>>>                   contribute them?
    >>>>>>                   Directly from Orbit you say?  But which ones
    >>>>>> should be
    >>>>>>                   pulled in from
    >>>>>>                   Orbit and how is that discovered?   Are those the
    >>>>>> ones the
    >>>>>>                   projects have
    >>>>>>                   tested against? Then there is the question of
    >>>>>> whether an
    >>>>>>                   installation is
    >>>>>>                   deterministic if the bundle version isn't pinned?
    >>>>>>                   It's not;
    >>>>>>                   it will
    >>>>>>                   depend on what's in the repos that are available at
    >>>>>>                   resolve
    >>>>>>                   time.  But
    >>>>>>                   Gunnar argues that even packages are not
    >>>>>> deterministic,
    >>>>>>                   which I think is
    >>>>>>                   false: if the feature pins the bundle version and the
    >>>>>>                   package requires
    >>>>>>                   the feature, then the pinned bundle is definitely in
    >>>>>> that
    >>>>>>                   package.  But
    >>>>>>                   regardless, Gunnar's important point is that the
    >>>>>> runtime
    >>>>>>                   wiring seems
    >>>>>>                   kind of non-determinstic, and while uses constraints
    >>>>>> might
    >>>>>>                   help, who the
    >>>>>>                   heck understands those well, what tooling produces it
    >>>>>>                   correctly for us,
    >>>>>>                   is that nicely integrated in PDE, and will it be
    >>>>>> properly
    >>>>>>                   maintained (in
    >>>>>>                   contrast to lower bound constraints which you can
    >>>>>> pretty
    >>>>>>                   expect will
    >>>>>>                   remain on whatever stale version they were
    >>>>>> initially set
    >>>>>>                   to).  This may
    >>>>>>                   well be the right direction in which to go, but
    >>>>>> getting
    >>>>>>                   there isn't
    >>>>>>                   going to be even half the fun...
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>                  Regards,
    >>>>>>                  Ed
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
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