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Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Java 9 Readiness

Ed,

Comments below.


On 14.03.2017 10:20, Ed Willink wrote:

Hi

I'm sorry if my confusion appears as rudeness, but I really am confused.

Definitely it appears as if you're suggesting that Dani, and perhaps other platform developers, don't understand the tools they're developing.

The only testing I have ever done in Eclipse uses JUnit and JUnit cannot use Java 9 without "Java 9" name support.

So yes, you need to install Java 9 support to have a Java 9 JRE enabled in your workspace.

I have semi-successfuly followed the instructions to start up Eclipse using Java 9. (However adding a -vm to eclipse.ini seemed to give me both Java 8 and Java 9, so I had to use my usual short cut after setting JAVA_HOME globally.) Eclipse seems to work. My Xtext-based editor starts, very encouraging, but beyond that I need real tests.

This is why I provided a setup to try to make it dead simple compared to manual approached.

Trying to follow the marketplace instruction I just get "Unable to read repository at http://marketplace.eclipse.org/marketplace-client-intro?mpc_install=2393593.
Unable to read repository at http://marketplace.eclipse.org/marketplace-client-intro?mpc_install=2393593.
http://marketplace.eclipse.org/marketplace-client-intro?mpc_install=2393593 is not a valid repository location." Not surprising since the Marketplace never seems to work for me. I use ZIPs. Is there no ZIP for the Y-build?

I can't comment on Marketplace support.  It seems the long and hard way to accomplish the goal.  Given you have an OCL Oomph project setup, I'm not sure why you don't try what I suggested.

The earlier thread refers to a PDT Y-build. Googling I find http://download.eclipse.org/eclipse/downloads/drops4/Y20160922-1000/ advertised in September 2016. So, yes, I am really confused that passive support for Java 9 was not in at least M3. By passive support, I mean use the Java 9 VM only in ways that a Java 8 VM worked. In terms of Eclipse, from my limited knowledge, this surely just requires Java 9 to be specified as a Window->Preferences->Java->Installed JREs, and thereafter have Java 9 as a menu option wherever installed VMs are selectable (e.g JUnit launches, manifest BREEs.)

Java 9 uses *.jmod to package up the libraries into modules.  An older version of JDT can't handle those and so can't recognize this structure as a JRE/JDK.  That's what the new branch is developing.

The above Y-build no longer exists. Trying just the ...drops4 in a browser takes me to the platform downloads where I see no Y-builds.

The setup I sent around includes that location:   http://download.eclipse.org/eclipse/updates/4.7-Y-builds

Since my expectation of Java 9 support seems to be so adrift of reality, I am clearly missing something. Why is there any question about what is in Oxygen?

I believe Mike suggested on the planning council mailing list that it's a legal licensing issue.

Surely Oxygen should have passive Java 9 support (potentially from M3).

It would be nice, but no, that's not the plan, and it's been suggested there are legal issues with releasing Java 9 support before Java 9 is released.

Perhaps even Neon.3 should have had passive Java 9 support.

What you're suggesting is infeasible.  The packaging structure of Java 9 is so different that the old tooling can't support it without the changes that are currently being developed in the new tooling (and that apparently can't be released until Java 9 is released).

With Java GA being so close to Oxygen, it would seem sensible to include active Java 9 support in Oxygen too, but if the JDT developers need the extra month, or if a significant Java 9 change is too high a risk, then ok an Update 1 may be necessary.

Issues regarding when Java 9 support can be released and the Oxygen schedule and contents for that is a topic for the planning council that is currently under discussion.

I really am confused. The simple use of Java 9 as Java 8 today seems unreasonably hard.
That's why I provided a configuration to simplify the whole process. 

    Regards

        Ed Willink


On 14/03/2017 08:20, Ed Merks wrote:

Ed,

This just seems downright rude to me.  There's simply no need to be snarky.  I suspect you're not actually confused, you're just being deliberately obtuse to make a point.

Dani's team is providing the excellent environment that all the Eclipse project developers use.  I'm absolutely certain that Dani is not only very familiar with Eclipse's development environment, he is in fact using it for JDT development and moreover is providing it for all of us to use.  He has been involved in that effort since day one.  His team's latest effort is to provide world-class support for the latest features of Java 9 and he's been kind enough to provide guidance in the wiki.  It's a wiki.  If you see room for improvement, do so.  That's what I just did (though the wiki just went down, along with Bugzilla).

In any case, please don't insult Dani (or platform developers) with obtuse suspicions.

Regards,
Ed

On 14.03.2017 08:13, Ed Willink wrote:

Hi Dani

I suspect that as a platform developer, you are not familiar with the nice environment that Eclipse provides for project developers.

I recognize two ways of running my tests.

a) as standalone JUnit tests

b) as Plugin JUnit tests

Both require the launch config to specify/re-use the invoking Eclipse JVM. So no Java 9 in Eclipse => no testing.

    Regards

        Ed Willink

On 13/03/2017 20:06, Daniel Megert wrote:
Hi Ed

It depends whether you want to run the tests from the command line or out of the IDE. From the command line you only need a Java 9 VM (e.g. the one installed on Hudson). From the IDE you need to install the Java 9 support as indicated in 'Running Eclipse with Java 9 Support (BETA)'.

Dani



From:        Ed Willink <ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To:        cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Date:        13.03.2017 20:40
Subject:        Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Java 9 Readiness
Sent by:        cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx




Hi

I'm confused again.

You previously replied that it was necessary to install a special JDT so that a Java 9 JDK was available within Eclipse. I see no mention of this in the wiki. Without doing this how can tests be run using Java 9?

    Regards

        Ed Willink


On 13/03/2017 19:05, Daniel Megert wrote:
I assume many of you already heard that Java 9 is scheduled for GA on July 27, 2017. The Planning Council did not yet decided how we will ship the Java 9 support for Eclipse but requires all release train projects to assess their readiness regarding Java 9. We have created the following wiki page to capture this: https://wiki.eclipse.org/Java_9_Readiness. That wiki page also explains how you can check your project and how you can launch Eclipse with a Java 9 VM.

Dani




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