Guys,
I think my own frustrations reflect those of the comments I see below
and they stem from a slight problem with the process. There are
must-do rules that I didn't agree should be there. I wasn't asked to
agree to them, my opinion wasn't solicited, and I don't feel I have
much
choice. I can whine, but that makes me a bad person. I can bemoan the
endless bidi problems that stem from trying to turn a development IDE
that manipulates primarily LTR scripts into one that tolerates a
mixture of LTR and RTL, but that makes me culturally insensitive. I'm
led to believe that I need to give a little more to get over the bar
this year,
which I'm told to expect will move a little higher the next time I try
to clear it. Hopefully it doesn't move right as a jump. I'm sorry I
could not be at the face to face, but does that really mean now I have
to live with all the new rules?
Of course I agree with the principle that I benefit from the train so
I'm willing to give back in kind. But if you stop and think about it, I
only depend on the platform, so the train actually does very little for
me
directly, yet I try to make sure my builds are done in a day rather
than in three days because I know that helps others. But I don't have
any spare resource, not one iota, so I need to balance my workload
carefully to ensure that my efforts produce maximum value. Most
importantly, I want to make those decisions myself. I don't want to be
coerced, I don't like feeling coerced, and when I start to feel that
way, I feel that it's time to push back.
When I spend a day making three plan.xml for components, and 10 other
component leads spend time as well, some even a day they claim, only to
find later that component plans can't be accommodated by the portal and
hence I must spend another 1/2 day manually rolling them up, I'm really
not happy camper. (Thanks Rich for making planURL work!) When I see
more must do's after finally having time
to look closely, I'm even less happy. So now I'm feeling coerced. I
have a low threshold of tolerance when I feel that the bar is being
moved in front of me. I have zero tolerance for being told I should
give a little more. I've given all there is to give and I will choose
what more to give.
So if someone tells me that I must have an N&N, part of me says,
shut up and just do it, it has value, the community will appreciate it,
and it won't take but a little time. The other part of me says, that's
not essential to the success of the train. Why am I being forced to do
this? Why have nice-to-haves become must-do's? That other part of
me has been primed to respond negatively by the feeling of being
overworked. It's wanting to find a way to even the playing field where
just little old me keeping all the different aspects of a project
working smoothly can still have some time to do some interesting
development work. So I'm primed to pick a really stupid little issue
out of principle and say no to it; just say no to see what happens.
The lesson here is that the train works because of the good will of the
participants. I give that good will gladly but I can choose to
withdraw it bitterly when push comes to shove. If my smaller project
falls off or decides to leave, the train
ends. Just as my cooperation is essential, so too is my agreement.
Regards,
Ed
Richard Gronback wrote:
Re: [eclipse.org-planning-council] RE:
[cross-project-issues-dev] Galileo Must-do's
Hi Martin,
Many of the things we’re requiring are just good Eclipse citizenship
items that all projects should be striving for anyway. Globalization
effort is not only about larger companies or commercial adopters. At
least 2 of the 3 communities that all Eclipse projects are supposed to
support require this for worldwide consumption. I see these as
Eclipse entry requirements, not only as train requirements. See
non-code aspects listed on the Release Review checklist: http://wiki.eclipse.org/Development_Resources/HOWTO/Release_Reviews
I can imagine a larger company contributing to a smaller project to get
it up to snuff if they are consumers of the project and require it for
a commercial product, for example. But, I doubt you’ll find a
willingness to contribute for the sake of getting projects on the
release train. Instead, we’ll likely just see smaller projects falling
off the train, or the respective project leads growing their project
team to meet the requirements, and in the process, improving the
overall quality/success of their project.
Best,
Rich
On 11/14/08 7:16 AM, "Oberhuber, Martin" <Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi
Richard,
I fully agree with what you say. I second
the idea that participating in the train may cost something, because
you also gain from it. I agree that we need rules in order to keep
consistent as we grow.
But I do see a potential problem here:
The PC is comprised of a single
representative of each PMC. These representatives are typically from
the larger companies, who can
afford sponsoring Eclipse to a larger extent (by providing PMC
personnel, expensing for travel to Face-to-face-meetings etc).
These larger companies are also the ones
who are interested in globalization, and as a matter of fact many of
the must-dos have
to do with globalization: String externalization, Babel, ICU4J just to
name few.
Now by means of the Train, smaller
projects (sponsored by smaller companies) get forced to invest in
globalization although they would
normally not need that because they might be interested in English-only
versions of their products based on Eclipse. It almost seems
that the larger companies (represented on the PMC's and the PC) take
the Train as a vehicle to have smaller projects do work that only
they benefit from.
I'm in favor of Rules that can be argued
to improve the Eclipse Architecture and consistency of the projects. I
like Capabilities, UI Guidelines, Branding, Build, Execution
Environment, OSGi, New&Noteworthy, Ramp-down-plan, Orbit. I can
also understand Accessibility as a social responsibility and
quality signal of Eclipse. But for rules that cannot be argued like
that, I think that those who need or gain
from a rule (the large ones) should also pay for it (by
contributing to the smaller projects).
Again, I'd like to
encourage everyone interested to participate in my poll:
http://www.doodle.com/64gndycncpksufx9
<http://www.doodle.com/64gndycncpksufx9>
Cheers,
--
Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind
River
Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member
http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm
From:
cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Richard Gronback
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 12:32 PM
To: Cross project issues
Cc: eclipse.org-planning-council
Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Galileo Must-do's
Each year, we raise the bar a little on release train participation.
As I recall, the main bar-raising items are capability definitions
and New & Noteworthy pages. These didn’t seem too drastic by
members of the PC that agreed to them, but maybe we were wrong (I
certainly hope not).
And to be clear, nobody is forcing anyone to do anything.
Participation on the Release Train is voluntary, but comes at the
cost of agreeing to release at a higher bar than what is normally
required for releasing as a non-train project. There’s not a whip
involved here, but a carrot. If you’d like to be on the train, there
is a cost, that’s all.
- Rich
On 11/14/08 5:01 AM, "Thomas Hallgren" <thomas@xxxxxxx> wrote:
I miss the good old days
when Open Source communities were based on the contributions that they
got, where the contributors were heroes, and the quality of the
resulting product were the product of their goodwill and skill. I find
that participating in the Eclipse release train nowadays involves
efforts that are somewhat overwhelming and that I, instead of adding
valid functionality to the areas where I contribute, am forced to
implement requirements that brings much less benefit to the intended
user base.
I think that when a central management stipulates this many
requirements for individual projects, there's a high risk that all the
fun is taken out of it. As a contributor, and even as a project
manager, I loose control. I no longer decide what's important in my
own domain. I no longer prioritize what to do with the time I spend on
the projects. Someone else does. A lot of the motivation is thereby
lost, replaced with a whip that forces me to comply with a strict set
of rules. Was that the intention? I don't think so.
Don't get me wrong, I can see that there are benefits in having a
common set of requirements. I just think it's a tad too much now.
Regards,
Thomas Hallgren
Schaefer, Doug wrote:
It'll be
interesting to see what happens when we get to the Release Review and
find few of us actually did all the must dos. Unfortunately, the must
do's didn't come with additional contributions and I can't seem to
pull any out of my, uh, never mind. I see Doom ahead unless a
Christmas miracle happens.
Doug.
From: cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Anthony Hunter
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:20 PM
To: Cross project issues
Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Galileo Must-do's
Hi Team, with respect to the questioning of the capabilities as a
"must do":
http://ahuntereclipse.blogspot.com/2008/11/i-just-dont-have-any-capabilities.html
and further comments should go on https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=252807
Cheers...
Anthony
--
Anthony Hunter mailto:anthonyh@xxxxxxxxxx
Software Development Manager: Eclipse Open Source Components
IBM Rational Software: Aurora / GEF / GMF / Modeling Tools
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