[news.eclipse.technology.jwt] No to non-XPDL ideas!!!

["Guennadi Vanine" <vgv8@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

It is OK to have graphical notation BPMN, or what is almost the same, UML 
(activity/state diagrams). BPMN can be translated into, e.g., to BPEL, but 
BPEL cannot be translated to BPMN



IMHO XML/textual representation should be pluggable and client-side.

There are no miracles, only compromises.



If to consult

http://xml.coverpages.org/Shapiro-XPDL.pdf

http://www.ebpml.org/A_Comparison_of_XPDL_and_BPML_BPEL.doc

there is nothing in BPEL or BPML that cannot be expressed by additional 
attributes and library functions in XPDL



BPEL and BPML are block structured programming languages 
(programmer-friendly), XPDL is graph structured (user-friendly). Translation 
of block-structured flow control into graph structure is easy, the reverse 
is difficult.



BPEL doesn't support nested process definitions



BPML and BPEL do not have the notion of an application as XPDL does.



BPEL and BPML have no way of declaring a participants or defining in the 
activities an expression that specifies the resources required to perform 
activity



BPEL and BPML  has no concept of application, neithere in a declarative 
contect for the package, nor as an implementation of activity (no 
distinction between BPML process and an application invoked in performing an 
activity)



BPML and BPEL build on top of WSDL. XPDL activities would be extended to do 
the same by the addition of appropriate attributes.

Sorry, but I need Designer to specify Workflows without any WEBSERVICES!!!!



In BPEL all processes are instantiated by reception of message ("The only 
way to instantiate a business process in BPEL4WS is to annotate a receive 
activity with the createInstance attribute set ti "yes"")



BPEL is orchestration language and I need to specify human interoperability 
(again without webservices, just with straight BPM engine in JSP pages).



"Microsoft's XLANG is another member of this family, as is IBM's Web 
Services Flow Language (WSFL). These latter two have now been combined in 
BPEL4WS."



I do not know much about IBM but MS Biztalk Server 2004 translate BPEL into 
XLang.



BPEL is just the kind of a way to tie the designer (in Biztalk it is 
Orchestration Desiner) to server side and proprietory implementations. I 
need to specify workflow in designer, on client side and have the 
possibilities to translate it according to my XSD!



Guennadi Vanine