[news.eclipse.newcomer] Re: Ganymede fails after update

[Sean Burlington <sean@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Nick Boldt wrote:
> Just because it can't be on the .iso doesn't mean that should prevent 

it is now :-)

(repositories anyway - I've not tried a full install CD fir a while)

> usage. Downloading and installing a closed-source JVM is pretty trivial,

The problem is that gcj is the default on many systems, and while the 
packaged version of eclipse works with it plugins often don't - nor does 
a downloaded version.

> even for the noobiest of linux users (it's easier than installing, say, 
> the Flash plugin for Firefox) and while I appreciate and subscribe to 

The non-free flash plugin has been pretty easy to install for a while - 
besides people really know what it does and why they want it - whereas 
someone trying out eclipse often won't know if it's the right thing for them

> the "everything should be open" mantra, I still use Skype and Sun/IBM 
> JVMs on a daily basis. I also use a lot of software that while open, its 
> source will never be read by me. (eg., OpenOffice, Pidgin, Firefox...)

Sun JVM is open now :-)

Should have been years ago - I'd have never learned Java if I'd known it 
would take so long (and never would have tried eclipse)


> > Now Java has been open sourced - Eclipse is available in Linux distros 
> > - but it will take time to build the user base in Linux - and without 
> > that user base packaging will be slower.
>
> Well, there's also the perception that "Eclipse is for Java" despite the 
> ongoing work to push C/C++, PHP, Javascript, Ruby, Python, Perl...

Yeah - and for me this is one of the great strengths of Eclipse - I 
mainly write PHP - and I could try Zend Studio ...

I find the Eclipse website to be quite inward looking

take this page for example http://www.eclipse.org/projects/whatsnew.php

Two clicks from the home page - I can't see any other what's new section 
- I expect it to be a list of new features from the new release .... but 
it's about Development Process Changes ...

The content for what's new exists (it's in the eclipse help) but much of 
it is really hard to find online.

All those great screenshots - only available to people who have already 
'bought into' Eclipse.


> > It's also apparent that Eclipse development often targets Windows - 
> > because that's where most of its developers are.
>
> Yes, and that's changing over time, but it's a gradual transition -- 
> like Internet Explorer users moving to Firefox. There's a lot of 
> resistance to the linux-as-desktop idea from the mainstream, but with 
> Vista being touted as the next Windows Me, Linux & Mac adoption are 
> growing... which is also why Eclipse on Mac is finally getting more 
> attention.

Over the last year I've seen relatively few developers on Windows (less 
than half) with the majority split between Linux and Macs

PHP developers develop for Linux and it's far far easier to run a 
development environment on Ubuntu than on Windows.

> On the flip side, I use Linux every day, so I get the occasional 
> complaint that my stuff (build systems using bash scripts) won't run on 
> Windows. :)

bash works just fine on windows ;-)

I spent a year using WIndows recently - Cygwin is the only way I 
survived ;-)

--

Sean